Fantastic series!
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| Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7498 |
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| Author: | Weisman [ March 12th, 2017, 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Ye-e-s, EXCELLENT work! Weisman Worklist http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... 504#p72223 |
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| Author: | Novice [ March 12th, 2017, 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Excellent work, beautiful drawings (as usual), and some very well historical points. |
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| Author: | eswube [ March 12th, 2017, 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Fantastic series!
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| Author: | waritem [ March 13th, 2017, 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Very nice drawing.
Is it the film "The Admiral " about admiral Alexander Kolchak?One of them give me deja vu to an film a watched once... think it was a big Russian film based around WW1 with a Russian destroyer placing mines in the leading role.... or more as one of them In the begining of the film , ranked captain, he commands a destroyer laying mines when he runs across SMS Friedrich Carl. But this occur in the baltic sea, so it wouldn't be exactly the same ship........................ Ps:do I need to express again my admiration for the quality of these drawings?...........................
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| Author: | heuhen [ March 13th, 2017, 10:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Very nice drawing.
Is it the film "The Admiral " about admiral Alexander Kolchak?One of them give me deja vu to an film a watched once... think it was a big Russian film based around WW1 with a Russian destroyer placing mines in the leading role.... or more as one of them In the begining of the film , ranked captain, he commands a destroyer laying mines when he runs across SMS Friedrich Carl. But this occur in the baltic sea, so it wouldn't be exactly the same ship........................ |
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| Author: | superboy [ March 13th, 2017, 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Lovely!
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| Author: | Garlicdesign [ March 16th, 2017, 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Hello again! Submarines of the Russian Black Sea Fleet The Russians developed their submarine arm relatively early, buying a mixture of domestic, US and German types; unfortunately, the domestic designs were frequently plagued by various design faults and gross unreliability. Nearly none of them could be fitted with the designed powerplants due to a drastic shotage of diesel engines, and their operational success was very limited. The Black sea fleet operated the following types: 1. Som-class (Holland-type) These little cuties were based on the Fulton, a little sub built on speculation in the USA and sold to the Russians in 1902. Six domestic copies were completed between 1905 and 1907, of which two - Losos and Shudak - were transferred to the Black Sea after the Russo-Japanese war. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/y7qgwby254vw7fl/SS_Losos_1905.png?dl=0) They were used mostly for training; no significant modifications were implemented, except w/t equipment. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/z0va8bx324y7pl1/SS_Shudak_1914.png?dl=0) Both were scuttled during the civil war. 2. Kasatka-Class One of the first domestic Russian submarine types, these were much less reliable than the smaller Holland boats. Their entire torpedo armament was external. Two - named Nalim and Skat - were with the Black Sea Fleet. Originally, they had a tiny conning tower forward without a hatch; the hatch was amidships, and whenever it was opened, the sub nearly flooded. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/uomogyjey74wttj/SS_Skat_1906.png?dl=0) Prior to the first world war, they received conning towers amidships which increased seaworthiness; they were still slow and unreliable. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/zrbk0mt7yyqpmxu/SS_Nalim%201912.png?dl=0) During the war, a deck gun (47mm Hotchkiss) was added. Nevertheless, they were not employed operationally. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/rtqlyt80ozltoy6/SS_Skat_1917.png?dl=0) Both were scuttled during the revolution. 3. Karp-Class These boats were virtually identical to the German U-1; they were ordered earlier and actually were the model for U-1, which was however completed more quickly. Karp and Karas were completed in 1907; a third sister named Kambala - completed 1907 - had been accidentally run over and cut in half by the battleship Rostisslav in 1909. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xe0kv5msnbmau7h/SS_Karp_1908.png?dl=0) The armament of a single internal TT forward was augmented by two fixed external TTs firing aft in 1910; otherwise no changes were made. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/4lv58p5o53jlzzc/SS_Karas_1915.png?dl=0) Again, these boats were not used operationally during the first world war. They were scuttled in 1918. 4. Krab The first minelaying submarine in the world when laid down in 1909, she took unreasonably long to complete due to several redesigns; when she was commissioned in 1915, the Germans already had submarine minelayers of their own. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/lz24y1nzjm9azta/SS_Krab_1915.png?dl=0) Krab was a successful design and apparently worked as advertised; she made several sorties against the Bosporus and Bulgaria during the first world war. In 1916, her 37mm gun was replaced with a 75mm piece. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ewzu12dhgn6dz5x/SS_Krab_1917.png?dl=0) 5. Morzh-class This class was already drawn by DP. http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/forums ... &start=860 6. Narval-class A Holland-design license-built by the Russians, much better than any domestic Russian boat of the era - if only they had been completed to their original specifications. As designed, these had four internal TT (two fore, two aft) and eight external drop-collars, plus two 75mm guns. As completed in 1915, none of the three had the planned engines, but rather much weaker ones; speed was 10/6 knots, rather than 16/10 knots as designed. Only Narval had the planned gun armament... ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/txidexo6bz15mdj/SS_Narval_1915.png?dl=0) ... the other two replaced the aft gun with a 57mm piece. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/sp77j8nk9861fle/SS_Kashalot_1916.png?dl=0) In 1917, all had the number of their drop-collars cut to 4 and received a new w/t fit. Kit also received the designed gun battery of two 75mm pieces. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/fg67yr5ooowfycj/SS_Kit_1917.png?dl=0) Kashalot was similarly rebuilt, but retained her 57mm gun aft. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/t6h5cm7097jjkg1/SS_Kashalot_1918.png?dl=0) They were used against the Ottomans, but I found no reference as to their successes. All three were scuttled during the civil war. 7. Bars-class A development of the Morzh-class, the Bars was Russia's standard-issue submarine type during the first world war, with 24 units laid down, six of which were for the Black Sea Fleet. Unlike the Baltic units, which were named for fish, the Black Sea units were named for birds: Gagara, Burvestnik, Orlan, Pelikan, Utka and Lebed. The design was poorly conceived, being very vulnerable to battle damage due to the lack of internal bulkheads; they also dived slowly while advertising their position with huge fountains of water created by their ballast tank vents, and were notoriously unreliable. On the plus side, the Black Sea units were the only Russian submarine class to receive the designed diesel engines, and they were good for 16/9 knots, much faster than any other Black Sea submarine. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/414m9oc2m507nkz/SS_Burvestnik_1917.png?dl=0) Four were completed in 1917; Pelikan and Lebed were uncomplete when the war ended and later scuttled. Of the completed units, Orlan and Gagara were scuttled in the civil war, while Burvestnik and Utka went to Bizerte with Wrangel's fleet. They were scrapped after 1924. 8. Amerikanskiy Golland (AG) class A dozen H-class submarines under construction in the USA on a British order were purchased by the Russians in 1916 and shipped in sections to Russia via Vladivostok and then onwards to Petrograd and Nikolayev per rail. Five boats (numbered AG11, AG12 and AG14 through AG16) were commissioned in the Baltic in 1916, but none of the Black Sea boats was completed before the revolution. AG21 and AG22 were completed in 1918. ![[ img ]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/civ9pfkvwgw6vj8/SS_AG-21_1918.png?dl=0) The first was scuttled, the second went to Bizerta and was later scrapped. The other four were completed by the Soviets in the 1920s and served in the second world war, where two were lost. Greetings GD |
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| Author: | Jackie Treehorn [ March 17th, 2017, 5:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Great and really well drawn and explained. Perfect Thread of a complete fleet and timeline. What is next? Russian Baltic Fleet, or Far East Fleet? |
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| Author: | Hood [ March 17th, 2017, 8:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Excellent additions. I hadn't heard of some of these before, all are well drawn and this thread is proving very informative. I've always had the sense the Imperial Russian Navy was a hotch-potch of foreign and domestic designs and this thread is certainly helping to untangle the sequence of designs. |
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| Author: | citizen lambda [ March 18th, 2017, 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet |
Great series! The chibi looks of the Holland class are just unbelievable in hindsight, but beyond that, you did a great job of showcasing the technical evolution of the fleet. With such a starting point, that evolution is much more spectacular with submarines than surface ships. |
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