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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 29th, 2023, 1:49 pm
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I let the other doing the talking. But I can show you how I would do it, I based it from a single picture.

- Blue lines to the left is deck height (this time 17px = 2.6 that include deck/roof thickness)
- Main hull color is slightly off-white (not the same white color as the background.
- Shading on overhang is 1+2 px shading.
- Stern, on a RORO vessel it's the left side, have a slight shade, then the bow (Right side).
- The same is it with underwater hull, you shade more to the left and little to the right.
- Marking for thruster/propeller, the propeller/thruster are usually directly under the marking.
- I changed the bridge, due to how it looks like on picturs
- no shading on glass.
- Small lines on the hull that is barely visible, we don't draw, it will make the hull look nice an clean then full of clutter.
- Ventilation is in same color as the hull-painting. on pictures it will of course look a bit dirty due to use. but we paint/draw it as new.
- Note the blue color I chose aren't 100% correct, should be a little darker and a little more blue.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 29th, 2023, 2:08 pm
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(I perpared the text of the entry below before Heuhen posted his excellent entry, which covers certain issues I left for later, as I wanted to concentrate on basics first)

Well, You've fixed most of the background coloring issue, but not all of it...
1a/b) there are still some background-color spots on draught marks, masts and radar supports. Also, the upper parts of masts seem to be made of the mast itself (essentialy a metal pipe, outlined in black) and of parallel wire antenna (?), connected to mast by support brackets - so why are spaces between mast and antenna filled with hull color (when actually it's an empty space, filled with nothing but background air);
2) I've removed the color stripes of livery and noticed that opening ends of the hull were not consistently shaded;
3) there seem to be several elements made by you in solid black - two of them (on the top-deck railings) seem to be just some marking plates 2-pixel thick and as such ought to be just made in very dark grey, more importantly, the two black rectangles in the middle of hull. From the photos these seem to be some intakes or exhausts, and as such they should just have black outline, but their interior should be made in some other (appropriate) color(s);
4) you've marked two waterlines (or rather two limits of watermark stripe) in black - back in the day marking the waterline was somewhat typical (but it was just one single-pixel-thick line, and if the black-colored stripe on the ship was thicker, the rest was made in very dark grey), but I'd suggest to drop these black lines and leave it just blue, not least because black (the actual "full" black) ought to be used only for contours and the like, while the "black paint" should be represented by dark grey shades;
5) one of the marked areas is colored, another has background color, which would imply that it's just empty space across the width of the ship. Is this correct?
6) there is a line on both ends of the ship, roughly on the level of main deck, which you marked in black - because it's not marking a right angle nor an external contour, it ought to be marked in other shade (the "darkest shadow shade", I guess).

Now, let's go to other things, namely the proper application of shading, which is clearly explained in style rules, but so far You didn't grasped it. In SB style the source of light (which is fundamental matter in regards to shading) is understood to be - for the drawings made in "default" position, so showing the starboard side and with bow pointing right - somewhere in the direction of top-right corner of the template (and it should be understood in general sense, without calculating exact angles, of course). It gets more complicated when ship (or other thing being drawn) is depicted port (bow pointing left), in plan (top) view or front/rear views - because the original rules never explicitly stated the "correct" way, the artists are free to either draw other views with shading appropriate for source of light being always in the top-right corner of template, or to draw shading with assumption that source of light is always above and in front of the bow, regardless of direction in which this bow is pointing - but in this case it's not important, as your particular work shows ship in "standard" (starboard) position (I am aware that it's double-ended ship, but it's default position).
So, that principle of shading means, that surfaces that are facing forward or up are in lighter shade (called "highlight") than the basic one, while those facing backwards or down are in darker shade (called "shadow shade"). If something casts shadow on a surface, like a higher deck or walkway or some equipment, then such shade ought to be marked by appropriate darker shade (remembering that if some surface is already made in "shadow shade", then additional shading needs to be applied in the form or "darker shadow shade" and so on. It is important to remember, that such shading is mostly meant to "show it's shaded", rather than to represent the most literal size of the thing that casts the shade (although wider things that cast deep shade ought to be marked with wider stripe of shade than narrow things).
As for the shading of rounded things, rules leave certain margin of individual decisions in regards to exact application of shading, but in principle, the so-called "45-degree rule" which means that cut-off line between shades is that particular angle relative to the viewer (as shown on the accompanying drawing, showing it for horizontal and vertical cylinder - mind that for oval-ish shapes etc. the relative proportions of highlighted/basic/shaded areas would differ).
In regards to your drawing, I'd like to point your attention that not all of the opening parts of hull are facing sufficiently forward/backwards to have them entirely highlighted/shadowed. Also, I suggest you think about shape of the "roofs" of both bridges, and how shading would apply to them.

Btw. your drawing seems to be located to high on the template - they are oriented on the template relative to waterline, not the bottom. :>
Also, the inflatable liferaft canisters have double black lines - I suggest you tweak them a bit to avoid it.
And it needs mentioning, that in SB (with exception of submarines) the hull should be painted bit darker than superstructure (style guide mentions use of "shadow shade" as "basic" of hull, but many artists, including me, use separate shade instead, that is roughly inbetween "superstructure basic" and "superstructure shadow shade" - of course, all other shades need to be applied analogically).

Last but not least - the logo and carrier name (from earlier iterations of these drawings) - you had them apparently copy-pasted and re-sized frome other source (the operator's name isn't even level :P ), but that way they were multi-shaded, so to speak, which is unacceptable. Below "how they were" (of course "magnified") and "how they ought to be" (regarding the style - I wasn't checking the size etc.).

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Drew_Air
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 29th, 2023, 7:51 pm
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:shock: Rahh yours looks 100x better than my drawing.


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Drew_Air
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 29th, 2023, 7:55 pm
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[ img ] These are the differences.


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Drew_Air
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 29th, 2023, 8:18 pm
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Joined: October 1st, 2022, 3:24 pm
So would this be some what better?
[ img ]


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 29th, 2023, 9:06 pm
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No, it is not "some what better". You've merely slapped bridge(s) made by Heuhen on otherwise almost unchanged old version to which I had a whole list of remarks, and which was also changed in many places by Heuhen.
And You've added that Heuhen's bridge without adding Heuhen to credits, btw. :P
You know what? It looks really insulting. Either REALLY improve, using suggestions provided by Heuhen and me in a comprehensive manner, or stop wasting our time.

Not mentioning multipleposting. There is an "edit" button, y'know?


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Drew_Air
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 30th, 2023, 7:27 am
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Alright my bad. Il add the Credits.


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Drew_Air
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 30th, 2023, 2:13 pm
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I credited you guys
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Drew_Air
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 30th, 2023, 4:48 pm
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I also added a bit more stuff such as the Logos.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Gozo Channel Fleet MALTAPosted: January 30th, 2023, 7:18 pm
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I haven't actually drawn any part of it, so I shouldn't be credited, and in any case credits are in single line, within single bracket.
Also, your ship lost keel at some point, you still didn't sorted out number issues I raised before, you failed to notice that shading can't be the same on both ends of the ship (no, copy-flip horizontally-paste isn't sufficient) because of the shading, and last but not least, what on earth happened to radars? Why they are black-outline-less, 2-pixel thick thingies? :P


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