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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 20th, 2016, 9:09 pm
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I can't think of a reason to put screw guards (not sure the proper term of the art) under the waterline if they are present only to bounce off of a vertical port wall.

I'd never given it much thought before but I really like the ice argument.

Anyway, very nice drawing of a class I'm rather fond of.


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ALVAMA
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 20th, 2016, 9:16 pm
Regards the bulges, if I understood correctly once from a Russian crew aboard here, when I asked this (since other Russian ships has this as well, like ''Petr Velikiy'')The pitch of the screws is a little too big, so a part of them outrange to be covered by the hull. As well the fear anything would stuck, like ice or stuff, would be less. and the noise of the screws would be much less. If any of these are correct I cant be sure, though..


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Tempest
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 20th, 2016, 10:57 pm
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Very nice.

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reytuerto
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 20th, 2016, 11:35 pm
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Very acuratelly (and also nice) drawn warships, as usual in Gollevainen. Cheers.


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adenandy
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 21st, 2016, 3:24 am
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Gollevainen wrote:
Quote:
I know the Russians have a weird way of classifying ships, but in the West, would one classify this ship as a Frigate please, a Corvette or even an OPV
Well IMO its not weird, its actually far more practical than the western system. I mean take frigate for example...hardly accurate definition of any modern day warship for just for its word.

Anyways the project 11540 was classified as SKR or 'storozhevoy korabl' which means guard ship. The term is also bit missleading and has its roots in the history but it was used in similar way frigates in western since, albeit the two terms are not comparable in every cases.

Interestingly enough the Project 11540 was the sole Soviet warship class that could be properly descriped as a frigate for its function and role. During its development the designers were aware of the global trend of new multipurpose warships, smaller than destroyers but more capable than previous escort ships were emerging. The project 1154 had its roots in the 70's as a more effective and lighter weight variant of the project 1124 (NATO: Grisha class) small anti-submarine ships with new weapons and systems. However the design grow in size as new tasks and operational requirements were issued for the design. At some point it was decided to add a helicopter capability and when the design had grown to over 2000t displacement, it was decided that completely new type of warship displacing 3000-4000t were to be designed to replace the larger project 1135 (NATO: Krivak) SKR in production.
Very interesting Golly. Thank you for your detailed response. :)

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 21st, 2016, 7:44 am
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Excellent work as ever Golly. The detailing looks very good.
One tongue in cheek comment on the ship though, did the Soviet designers decide flat decks were passé? There seems to be almost no level decks in the superstructure at all! Always something that mystified me about this class.

The bumps are odd, my thoughts were perhaps some kind of bubbler system for noise suppression?

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citizen lambda
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 21st, 2016, 6:07 pm
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adenandy wrote:
Very interesting Golly. Thank you for your detailed response. :)
I honestly don't see what's so weird about this class in particular. As per Golly's explanation, the Neustrashimiy is the closest Soviet equivalent of a Western multirole frigate. The closest equivalent I can think of is the Japanese non-AA DDs like the Takatsuki or Asagiri, but even the British Type-23 is a handful of ASROCs from being a dead ringer.
Mostly "SKR" is "frigate", as long as you keep in mind that the Russians were doing <2000t "light frigates" long after everyone else stopped. The Gepard/Tatarstan and Steregushchiy are the current incarnation of that class that, in contrast to Western frigates, is mostly dedicated to coastal warfare.
Anyway, ship classes are so arbitrary and flowing... Add to that the external observer factor and the constant in-class displacement inflation and you end up with Jane's calling the Sovremenniy and Udaloy cruisers in the early 80s, and the Krivak being classified a DDG in the 70s...

If you want confusing, you need to check out the BPKs or "large anti-submarine ships", which were any Soviet ships above SKR that were dedicated to ASW as opposed to surface action. The downside in classification terms was that there wasn't really a limit in displacement, so that ships called either "cruisers" (Kresta,Kara) and "destroyers" (Udaloy, Kashin) in the West would belong to that same mission-based category.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 21st, 2016, 7:23 pm
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Excellent work!

In regards to Soviet warship classification, it might be said with certain dose of oversimplification (and remembering that it's not anything written in stone), that BPK designation carried some implication of "fleet escort", whereas SKR designation carried some implication of "large littoral escort/defence ship". (Bit in a way - of course taking into account the fundamental difference in operating doctrines and needs between USN and VMF - like the difference of DD and DE/FF in the Cold War-era USN).
In this case, indeed Pr.1154 design was the attempt to create an multi-role vessel, so the more vague "SKR" was better fitting.


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Cybermax
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 21st, 2016, 7:37 pm
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One of my favorite Russian ships! Great work on her!


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Project 11540 Neustrashimyy ClassPosted: July 22nd, 2016, 5:13 am
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The page http://www.russianships.info has Neustashimyy in category "Frigates" and in the table says "Guard Ship. Russian page says "CKP" in Cyrrilic which is exactly "SKR".

http://russianships.info/boevye/11540.htm

It also says something for an export Pr.11541 variant, is there any info for that?


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