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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 23rd, 2016, 9:49 pm
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Hello again and Merry Christmas everybody

Lightfoot- and Parker-class leaders

As the RN much expanded its destroyer fleet early in WWI, there no longer were enough third class cruisers to lead all the flotillas; those that were available also were to slow to keep up with the newest generation of destroyers (the M-class was ten knots faster than the Boadiceas and the Actives). The answer was a specialized large destroyer of 1.440 tons with the necessary accomodation for the flotilla leader's staff. Four were laid down in 1914, eight in 1915 and one (for the RAN) in 1916. Although the last six (HMS Parker, HMS Saumarez, HMS Hoste, HMS Grenville, HMS Seymour and HMS Anzac) differed considerably from the first seven HMS Kempenfelt, HMS Lightfoot, HMS Marksman, HMS Nimrod, HMS Abdiel, HMS Gabriel and HMS Ithuriel) externally, displaced 200 tons more and were generally rated a different class, they had very similar hulls of identical length and the same armament (four 102mm guns, two 40mm Pompoms and four 533mm TTs); only the layout of the guns had been improved, the second group being the first British destroyers with superfiring guns forward.

HMS Kempenfelt displaying the look of the first group as completed:
[ img ]

HMS Abdiel was converted to a fast minelayer before completion, having her bridge and forefunnel cut down, guns No.2 and 4 (sources say 3 and 4, but photographic evidence clearly shows No.3 still present after the refit) and both torpedo tubes landed and rails for 80 mines added:
[ img ]

HMS Lightfoot swapped one of her 40mm Pompoms for a 76mm HA gun in 1917; she also received two additional 457mm torpedo tubes abreast the bridge firing forward for close range work:
[ img ]

HMS Nimrod apparently was converted to a private destroyer; she had her flag bridge cut down and received the same 457mm TTs forward as Lightfoot, but no 76mm Flak.
[ img ]

In 1918, the class was fitted with improved fire control and full-sized gunshields; HMS Marksman and HMS Kempenfelt also swapped one Pompom for a 76mm gun and had their upper bridge extended aft, looking roughly identical:
[ img ]

HMS Ithuriel in 1918 retained both Pompoms and the shorter upper bridge:
[ img ]

HMS Gabriel was similar to Ithuriel throughout the war, but was rebuilt to a fast minelayer similar to Abdiel in late 1918 or early 1919:
[ img ]

HMS Parker looked like this on completion; to my layman's eyes, there were no discernible differences among the class (except HMS Anzac, see below):
[ img ]

In 1917, the fire control system was improved and the gunshields enlargened in all (although one can't be sure, because period photographs tend to be labeled rather arbitrarily):
[ img ]

HMS Anzac could be easily discerned by her higher freeboard and different bow and stern shape; she also had flat-sided rather than cylindrical funnels and never received the larger gunshields:
[ img ]

Like Abdiel and Gabriel, HMS Seymour was rebuld to a fast minelayer in 1918:
[ img ]

Only HMS Hoste of the Parker-Group was a war loss (accidental); of the others, Parker and all of the Lightfoot-group (except Abdiel) were scrapped in 1921. Grenville, Seymour and Saumarez were scrapped in the early 1930s, Anzac in 1935 and Abdiel in 1936.

Greetings
GD


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signal
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 23rd, 2016, 10:51 pm
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Thank you, Garlicdesign, these are wonderful.


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 24th, 2016, 1:04 am
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Great drawings GD,

Are those the new 4" mountings we discussed? Could you put a copy of them into the RN weapons thread so they can be added to the sheet.

With GD, we did find that the 4" on the sheet is 2-3 pixels too big, and we could not fit the various fittings along the length of the destroyer with the SB parts rules and current 4" guns. Something had to change.

GD, did you get around to altering the Talisman's to make that gap between bridge and 1st funnel slightly bigger?


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 24th, 2016, 9:28 am
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That's a lovely Christmas present GD!

Sure, by all means post the new 4in and I'll add them to the parts sheet. Getting barrel lengths correct is not always easy.

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BB1987
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 24th, 2016, 10:13 am
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Another great set.

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citizen lambda
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 25th, 2016, 1:07 pm
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Thanks for the gift!
Another great series with the usual high standards in drawing and research, as far as I can tell.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 25th, 2016, 2:01 pm
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Indeed a great Christmas gift. :)

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karlik
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 25th, 2016, 5:47 pm
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Wonderful work!


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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 28th, 2016, 11:08 am
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Hi everyone!

Thanks for the praise!

Concering the guns: I've compared the 102mm Mk.IV with and without gunshields with scaled drawings of various destroyer classes. The shields and the breech part of the gun usually fit (although there were more types than the one shown), but the barrels were shorter in reality. I cut the barrels by three pixels; IMHO there's no redraw necessary, at least for this type of gunshield. The L-class destroyers for instance used smaller ones. I may present a reworked 102mm Mk.IV when I come round to drawing the L-class next year. Similarly, the 102mm BL Mk.VII as fitted to the Boadicea-class was longer than the one on the parts sheet; I lengthened the barrel by three pixels to make it match my source pics.

Greetings
GD


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Some British WW1 destroyersPosted: December 28th, 2016, 1:29 pm
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That's most useful I'll make those interim changes and I'll await a new Mk.IV for next year.
There are dozens of these guns and mounts and shields so I've tried to keep things generic as not everything can be shown. Also, without good quality images of the weapons, often the sizes and details come from scaled ship drawings which vary in details too.

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