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BB1987
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: October 6th, 2012, 6:33 pm
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I agree with Denodon about the 1944 version, she is the best of the trio.

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seeker36340
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: November 13th, 2012, 5:10 pm
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Quite a series. Do you have specs for the 12-inchers? I was wondering if they would be a substantial improvement over the triple 11-inchers


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Syzmo
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: November 13th, 2012, 6:14 pm
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I dont have any information about the ship besides the picture. Not sure why the 12in guns were chosen over 3 or 4 triple 11in turrets

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denodon
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: November 14th, 2012, 12:28 am
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Only reason I could possibly guess is if the 12 inch guns were recycled from older vessels, though with the scuttling and subsequent scrapping of the high seas fleet in 1919, that idea doesn't seem too valid as I don't recall Germany being allowed any larger than 11in guns after Versailles.

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Syzmo
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: November 14th, 2012, 7:07 am
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right, the maximum size was limited to 11 inches. I'm not sure why Zenker wanted to negotiate for 12, its only marginally larger than 11, why not ask for 14. I realize the 11 inch gun may not have been proven at this point, but it really was a good weapon, I dont see how an extra inch would have mattered.

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Karle94
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: November 15th, 2012, 12:30 pm
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There was no restriction on guns size in the Versailles, only the size of the vessel. Battleships max 10,000 tons and cruisers 6,000 tons.


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Syzmo
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: November 15th, 2012, 6:05 pm
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are you sure about that? i cant find a source at the moment and but i could have sworn there were restrictions on main gun caliber.

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KHT
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: November 15th, 2012, 6:20 pm
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http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/partv.asp
5th section of the Versailles Treaty. Mentions military restrictions. Section II starts on article 181, mentioning naval restrictions. Nothing mentions the 11" guns of what I could see.


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denodon
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: November 16th, 2012, 12:52 am
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Hmm...interesting. I do recall hearing Germany was restricted from having any guns over 11in on vessels and guns of larger caliber could only be built at a rate of one per year. It was one of the reasons hitler pushed for the negotiation with Britain to have some freedom to build more powerful ships (both the re-gunned Scharnhorts and the future Bismarck class).

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seeker36340
Post subject: Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser DesignPosted: November 25th, 2012, 2:19 pm
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Is she diesel-powered? She has surface raider written all over her. If I were the Allied powers I wouldn't have let her be built either as she would have been superior to anything but the three RN battlecruisers if she got into the Atlantic, as with Deutscheland but worse. It also doesn't do to think what would have happened to the Exeter task force if they ran into her instead of Graf Spee.

There were certainly excellent WWI 30.5cm and 34cm designs on file so a modern 30.5cm gun would have been well within Krupp's capabilities. A modernized triple 30.5cm could have been based on the WWI model with a longer barrel and better elevation. Plus, according to NavWeps the Germans did improvements on shell design and elevation for older guns used for coastal defense.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_12-50_skc12.htm

With her additional size I wonder would she have the traditional excellent German "honeycomb" underwater protection? That had to be compromised with the Deutscheland class due to size restrictions. Also, would her armor be proof against 30.5cm guns or just 20.3cm like Deutscheland? I gathere there are few details available but it's something I imagine her designers would have looked at.

She also would be more than a match for the French light battleships, so the French would have had kittens over her.


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