Shipbucket http://shipbucket.com/forums/ |
|
1928 German Battlecruiser Design http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3529 |
Page 4 of 6 |
Author: | seeker36340 [ November 25th, 2012, 3:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
The preliminary designs for battleship replacement as described by Breyer called for main guns up to 38cm for the "coastal defense" version. |
Author: | Syzmo [ March 29th, 2014, 9:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
I never quite got around to modifying these a year and a half ago, but here is what the design looks like with the triple 11" pocket battleship guns. |
Author: | denodon [ March 29th, 2014, 11:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
Looks pretty interesting to me. The last design seems somewhat overloaded but the others look good. I still like this design. |
Author: | Syzmo [ March 29th, 2014, 11:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
I am inclined to agree with you, I got rid of the triple 5.9" wing turrets to compensate but that probably ins't enough. I like the first design the most by far, even better than the original German design. |
Author: | denodon [ March 29th, 2014, 11:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
Agreed. The first looks the most balanced configuration in terms of weight distribution and such. I kinda like the second one too only the superfiring gun forward seems a bit too much. The aft platform reminds me of the M project cruisers of Z-plan note that had similar. |
Author: | eswube [ March 30th, 2014, 7:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
Interesting work. |
Author: | maomatic [ March 30th, 2014, 10:48 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
Great drawings! The last version mounting 12 x 11" guns seems heavily overloaded though... |
Author: | Syzmo [ March 30th, 2014, 4:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
Just an interesting comparison, the first SpringSharp report is this ship as designed with 8x12in guns. I could net get him to make 34 knots on 17,500 tons displacement so the report shows a top speed of 30 knots. At 20,000 tons displacement he can make 34 knots, with everything else staying the same. The second report is the design with 12x11 guns. By dropping the cruising speed from 12 knots to 10 everything else can be left the same. Moltke, Deutschland Battlecruiser laid down 1928 Displacement: 15,686 t light; 16,578 t standard; 17,518 t normal; 18,271 t full load Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught 690.05 ft / 639.76 ft x 82.02 ft x 27.89 ft (normal load) 210.33 m / 195.00 m x 25.00 m x 8.50 m Armament: 8 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1928 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring 9 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (3x3 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1928 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on side ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring 4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1928 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring Weight of broadside 7,936 lbs / 3,600 kg Shells per gun, main battery: 120 6 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m 114.83 ft / 35.00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 1.57" / 40 mm 524.93 ft / 160.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Torpedo Bulkhead: 1.77" / 45 mm 524.93 ft / 160.00 m 27.89 ft / 8.50 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 5.51" / 140 mm 4.13" / 105 mm 4.13" / 105 mm 2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 88,789 shp / 66,236 Kw = 30.00 kts Range 8,000nm at 12.00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1,693 tons Complement: 760 - 989 Cost: £6.755 million / $27.021 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 992 tons, 5.7 % Armour: 4,058 tons, 23.2 % - Belts: 1,209 tons, 6.9 % - Torpedo bulkhead: 960 tons, 5.5 % - Armament: 851 tons, 4.9 % - Armour Deck: 952 tons, 5.4 % - Conning Tower: 86 tons, 0.5 % Machinery: 2,764 tons, 15.8 % Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,722 tons, 44.1 % Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,832 tons, 10.5 % Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.9 % Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 16,430 lbs / 7,453 Kg = 19.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10 Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m Roll period: 16.3 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.11 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak Block coefficient: 0.419 Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2.50 degrees Stern overhang: 49.21 ft / 15.00 m Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length): - Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m - Forecastle (60 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m - Mid (60 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break) - Quarterdeck (40 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m - Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m - Average freeboard: 19.66 ft / 5.99 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 125.9 % - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.1 % Waterplane Area: 32,692 Square feet or 3,037 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 99 % Structure weight / hull surface area: 157 lbs/sq ft or 767 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0.96 - Longitudinal: 1.53 - Overall: 1.00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate Moltke, Deutschland Battlecruiser laid down 1928 Displacement: 15,941 t light; 16,845 t standard; 17,518 t normal; 18,057 t full load Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught 690.05 ft / 639.76 ft x 82.02 ft x 27.89 ft (normal load) 210.33 m / 195.00 m x 25.00 m x 8.50 m Armament: 12 - 11.02" / 280 mm guns (4x3 guns), 669.80lbs / 303.81kg shells, 1928 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring 10 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns (5x2 guns), 20.79lbs / 9.43kg shells, 1928 Model Anti-aircraft guns in turrets (on barbettes) on side ends, majority forward, 3 raised mounts - superfiring Weight of broadside 8,245 lbs / 3,740 kg Shells per gun, main battery: 120 6 - 19.7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 3.15" / 80 mm 393.70 ft / 120.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m Ends: 2.36" / 60 mm 131.23 ft / 40.00 m 6.56 ft / 2.00 m 114.83 ft / 35.00 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 1.57" / 40 mm 524.93 ft / 160.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces - Torpedo Bulkhead: 1.77" / 45 mm 524.93 ft / 160.00 m 27.89 ft / 8.50 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 5.51" / 140 mm 4.13" / 105 mm 4.13" / 105 mm 2nd: 1.18" / 30 mm 0.79" / 20 mm 0.79" / 20 mm - Armour deck: 1.57" / 40 mm, Conning tower: 5.91" / 150 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Geared drive, 3 shafts, 88,789 shp / 66,236 Kw = 30.00 kts Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1,212 tons Complement: 760 - 989 Cost: £6.914 million / $27.655 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1,031 tons, 5.9 % Armour: 4,139 tons, 23.6 % - Belts: 1,209 tons, 6.9 % - Torpedo bulkhead: 960 tons, 5.5 % - Armament: 932 tons, 5.3 % - Armour Deck: 952 tons, 5.4 % - Conning Tower: 86 tons, 0.5 % Machinery: 2,764 tons, 15.8 % Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,857 tons, 44.9 % Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,577 tons, 9.0 % Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 0.9 % Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 16,260 lbs / 7,375 Kg = 24.3 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12 Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m Roll period: 16.1 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 49 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak Block coefficient: 0.419 Length to Beam Ratio: 7.80 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 25.29 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 2.50 degrees Stern overhang: 49.21 ft / 15.00 m Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length): - Stem: 24.61 ft / 7.50 m - Forecastle (60 %): 23.62 ft / 7.20 m - Mid (60 %): 22.97 ft / 7.00 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break) - Quarterdeck (40 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m - Stern: 13.12 ft / 4.00 m - Average freeboard: 19.66 ft / 5.99 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 128.0 % - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.1 % Waterplane Area: 32,692 Square feet or 3,037 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 % Structure weight / hull surface area: 160 lbs/sq ft or 780 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0.96 - Longitudinal: 1.52 - Overall: 1.00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate |
Author: | bezobrazov [ March 30th, 2014, 4:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
Syzmo, may I steal these designs to design the Turkish BC:s for my AU- thread? In other words: smashingly well done, old boy, what, what!?! |
Author: | DG_Alpha [ March 30th, 2014, 4:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: 1928 German Battlecruiser Design |
Interesting variation ideas for that design. I have to say though, the guns and rangefinders still use the old parts. |
Page 4 of 6 | All times are UTC |
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited https://www.phpbb.com/ |