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New RN Frigates
http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6406		 Page 7 of 12
Author:  sparky42 [ September 9th, 2017, 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
Mist wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 12:34 pm
As far as more complex weapons go i imagine that the PDMS will be the converted Seawolf cells ripped directly from the T23s rather then the new build system planned for the T26s. And if any Anti-ship missile is fitted it will be the same tired old block one Harpoon that the T45s and T23s carry.
Thought the RN was withdrawing the surface Harpoon from 2019 onwards?
Author:  Mist [ September 9th, 2017, 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
sparky42 wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 2:28 pm
Mist wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 12:34 pm
As far as more complex weapons go i imagine that the PDMS will be the converted Seawolf cells ripped directly from the T23s rather then the new build system planned for the T26s. And if any Anti-ship missile is fitted it will be the same tired old block one Harpoon that the T45s and T23s carry.
Thought the RN was withdrawing the surface Harpoon from 2019 onwards?
in which case there will be no ship to ship weapon
Author:  heuhen [ September 9th, 2017, 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
Mist wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 3:12 pm
sparky42 wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 2:28 pm
Mist wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 12:34 pm
As far as more complex weapons go i imagine that the PDMS will be the converted Seawolf cells ripped directly from the T23s rather then the new build system planned for the T26s. And if any Anti-ship missile is fitted it will be the same tired old block one Harpoon that the T45s and T23s carry.
Thought the RN was withdrawing the surface Harpoon from 2019 onwards?
in which case there will be no ship to ship weapon
if they get problem with finding replacement, just over the pond, we have a plug in weapon... in Norway NSM, it's developed and tested so whats the point of using unnecessary resources on developing something new, when you can take something and modifie it UK use... NSM have also the bonus of being capable of attacking land target, so what's the point? when you can take something an improve on it for you'r use, inn long term it can be cheaper due to shared production/development cost
Author:  Mist [ September 9th, 2017, 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
heuhen wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 4:58 pm
Mist wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 3:12 pm
sparky42 wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 2:28 pm


Thought the RN was withdrawing the surface Harpoon from 2019 onwards?
in which case there will be no ship to ship weapon
if they get problem with finding replacement, just over the pond, we have a plug in weapon... in Norway NSM, it's developed and tested so whats the point of using unnecessary resources on developing something new, when you can take something and modifie it UK use... NSM have also the bonus of being capable of attacking land target, so what's the point? when you can take something an improve on it for you'r use
Are they free?

Because that's about how much money the RN has for new Ship to ship missiles.
Author:  heuhen [ September 9th, 2017, 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
Mist wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 5:00 pm
heuhen wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 4:58 pm
Mist wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 3:12 pm


in which case there will be no ship to ship weapon
if they get problem with finding replacement, just over the pond, we have a plug in weapon... in Norway NSM, it's developed and tested so whats the point of using unnecessary resources on developing something new, when you can take something and modifie it UK use... NSM have also the bonus of being capable of attacking land target, so what's the point? when you can take something an improve on it for you'r use
Are they free?

Because that's about how much money the RN has for new Ship to ship missiles.
They have to end up with getting something we call in Norway: money marked for one thing, money that come in as an extra money additional to the normal budget.
Even we in Norway have problem, we found enough money to run all 5 frigates by, removing several office post, and either early retire or find new work for officer. We have to many Generals and Admirals in the Norwegian Navy. The biggest problem we have in Norway in the moment are filling up our stores with ammunition, some of our stores are running empty and for some ammunition, it several month delivery time!

do the RN have to budget, one budget for the Normal operation, and a additional budget some are for investment.

I would love to see more country in NATO using NSM, mainly due to simplified supply line inside the NATO
Author:  Mist [ September 9th, 2017, 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
heuhen wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 5:25 pm
Do the RN have to budget, one budget for the Normal operation, and a additional budget some are for investment.
They do.

However the MoD understands that there is nothing more permanent then a temporary solution. And any purchase of an interim Ship to ship missile would be seen as a direct threat to the combined AShM/Land Attack Missile wonder weapon they want to get down the road.

This kind of protectionist thinking is rife in the British Military

For example the reason the Lynx Wildcat isn't going to be fitted for Brimstone is to protect the Apache upgrades. And the reason the Merlin was never fitted for Sea Skua and won't be fitted for it's replacement is to protect the Wildcat programme.
This is also the reason the British Naval Wildcats don't have the facility for a dipping sonar, despite the fact that British surface warships can carry either a pair of Wildcats or a single Merlin, not one of each.

capability will be deliberately reduced or removed on one platform to protect another.
Author:  heuhen [ September 9th, 2017, 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
that is what I call: "being British...!"
Author:  Mist [ September 9th, 2017, 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
heuhen wrote: *September 9th, 2017, 6:17 pm
that is what I call: "being British...!"
The Treasury is a vicious and vindictive organization.
Author:  waterwings [ September 11th, 2017, 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
There's a good T26 analysis here about the sheer amount of money being poured into a ship that will apparently just inherit most of its systems from the retiring T23 fleet and one here on the putative T31 and the National Shipbuilding Strategy.

In that vein, here's the latest offering for the Type 31 programme, the Babcock Arrowhead 120. Given that it's entirely guesswork as to the systems choices at this stage I've gone for the very basic 30mm, 5" and Artisan and ... that's about it. The design includes 16 VLS and room for a Harpoon equivalent or replacement, but given the Navy's anti-ship strategy of not having an anti-ship strategy, that option is not included.

[ img ]

Personally I think it's the best looking of a bad bunch, but I may have a crack at Scimitar as well to see how that turns out.
Author:  sparky42 [ September 11th, 2017, 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New RN Frigates
In terms of the Arrowhead I wonder if the current limitations of the hangar might rule it out, with Merlin's not fitting? Though perhaps the UK would just stick with Wildcat and a UAV for them if picked?
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