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S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9686		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  dalamace [ September 18th, 2019, 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
Hello,

Today, I've drawn a concept design dated for 28 July 1940, a light cruiser armed with six inch guns as found on the Cleveland-class but was also with another armament of a pair of quadruple torpedo tubes. It was about 80 feet longer than the USS Cleveland and possess some characteristics of the earlier St Louis-class but very few of them. My drawing is mainly based (if not copied) from the USS Cleveland as dated in 1943.

This one dated 1943 and is in the Measure 21 Scheme. Its armaments is identical to the Cleveland with the exception of a pair of quadruple torpedo tubes.

[ img ]

Here is the 1940 and the most barebones, lacking parts and structures of what a ship is expected to have. Its armaments are 4 x triple 6-inch guns, 4 x quadruple 1.1 inch guns, and 2 x quadruple torpedo tubes. It is practically what the plan for the ship is like if drawn in Shipbucket Style.

[ img ]

And here is the photo of the blueprint itself.

[ img ]

Pardon the lack of clutter and any mistakes. If there are any, please point them out as this is my first time making a drawing from scratch. If I post this in the wrong section, my apologies.

Thank You!
Author:  Armoured man [ September 18th, 2019, 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
looks good but could definitely do with some little details like deck clutter, but overall it is a solid drawing keep up the good work.
Author:  csatahajos [ September 24th, 2019, 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
You'd also need to add the lower parts of the armored belt forward and aft, covering the 6" mags (see on the side view how the armored deck steps down, now that is the upper edge of the lower belts.
Author:  dalamace [ September 27th, 2019, 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
Hello,

I've drawn some more details, which are hopefully realistic. If there're are some tips about making deck clutter, please do tell. And also, I've elongated the armour belt so it would cover the magazine.

[ img ]

Hopefully, this drawing is at least a bit better.

Thank You!
Author:  emperor_andreas [ September 28th, 2019, 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
Very nice work!
Author:  erik_t [ September 28th, 2019, 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
I'd prefer to see the bronze (not glowing yellow) screws, and I'd be curious to hear Colosseum's thoughts on how the directors would likely be altered for the radar era. The current arrangement blocks the optics of the 6" directors, which seems somewhat unlikely to me.

I might use a lighter blue on the aircraft crane so that it doesn't look so much like a mess of black pixels (something to experiment with).

I think the rudder should show a gap between it and the hull.

The (not sure the right term) screw guard should probably be located right outboard of the #1/#4 screws, not forward of them.

Otherwise, it's a nice drawing!
Author:  Colosseum [ September 30th, 2019, 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
Interesting stuff - I'd pull the 6"/47s from the newest Brooklyn class drawings in the archive and make sure you are only using parts from the sheets posted in the wiki (through my signature link). Don't use any pre-existing parts on the old Cleveland drawings. I noticed the old ugly searchlights immediately :)

I notice a lot of areas where edges are rounded which don't look nice (and anyway don't represent reality as bulwarks and decks IRL are not rounded ;) )

erik_t is right about location of the prop guard, this should be directly centered above the outboard screws. For the screws, pull the versions I used on the newer Brooklyns as well.

As for the director arrangement, this version actually makes sense for pre-war designed ships. The Clevelands had trouble with optical interference on the Mark 34 directors when radar was mounted to the Mark 37s. At first this was solved by putting the Mark 4 radar on long support struts to clear the Mark 34 optics, but when the heavier Mark 12/22 combination was introduced, the struts were no longer viable and the interference just had to be managed (at any rate ranging was usually handled via radar at this point...)

You need to use the new Mark 34 director drawings (again check the wiki). I would also use Mark 37 directors with early Mark 4 radar installations. It would be useful to know "when" the ship is depicted -- if you're showing it in 1940, no radars would be available, but if you're showing it in late 1942 as commissioned, use the following:

- Mark 34: Mark 3
- Mark 37: Mark 4
- SC air search on foremast
- SG surface search on mainmast
Author:  dalamace [ September 30th, 2019, 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
Hello,

Thanks for the feedback! As for Colosseum's criticism about the rounded edges, I don't think I understand what you mean. And would I have to credit the original artist for the propellers since I have copied it.

At any rate, I've done some changes. Added some flotations to the turrets and areas of the ship, the SC and SG radar have been redrawn, the Mark 34 and Mk 37 have been replaced with those of 1942, the torpedo tubes have been replaced with an older model, the twin 5-inch guns replaced the ones from St Louis rather than the Atlanta class, and some other minor reworks.

The drawing is also depicted from 1942 instead of a combination of various eras.

[ img ]

If there are any other thing I should know, please do tell!

Thank You!
Author:  Colosseum [ September 30th, 2019, 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
This is what I mean:

[ img ]

Applies to everything (including railings)

New parts look good. Again, replace the 6"/47s with the latest version: [ img ]

No need to credit props as they are parts (parts aren't credited per SB rules..)

I would make the sides of the Mark 34 director foundation tubes line up with the base of the Mark 34 directors, not the outside of the director shield (look at the Brooklyns for how this should look)

You're using the old 40mm Bofors ;)

Here's a better version of the amidships boat crane: [ img ]

Personally, I'd retain the Mark 32 5" mounts on this ship - Cleveland class was launched with them and the Mark 28 early mounts were only aboard St Louis and Helena

Finally, I'd make all the railing bits that are not on top of the ship's superstructure into light grey (see my drawings for how this works)
Author:  dalamace [ October 2nd, 2019, 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: S-511-19 Torpedo Armed Cleveland Design
Hello,

I see, thanks for the clarification!

[ img ]

I hope this is more up to standards! Though, regarding the Bofors, I don't know where I could find it as I took it directly from the wiki. Perhaps I just coloured it wrong? At any rate, I hope this is a lot better but I am still willing to work on it if there's anything that should be done or any errors to be done.

A quick question, if I was to make a completely hypothetical drawing that would make in 1945 (though definitely not beyond as that is out of my scope (even more so than now)), would I have to put it in personal design/alternate universe or can I put it here?

Thank You!
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