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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 9th, 2018, 4:42 pm
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Thanks one and all again for feedback. It helps me get through the slog. I'm back once again with a new, not frigate!, vessel. I've also updated my front page to make a more central list of my final AU ships.

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As the RNFN worked on it's fleet modernization scheme, with new frigates, patrol vessels, and auxiliaries; it was determined that the fleet needed a new amphibious support vessel to replace the older LSLs/LSTs in service. Newfoundland, being an island off the mainland of Labrador, and itself comprised of dozens of inhabited islands; needed a vessel that would allow the RNFN to transport Marine and regular infantry units to reinforce or defend other units. As well, the fleet also needed a vessel capable of supporting humanitarian and disaster relief operations as well.

[ img ]
HMNFS William Amherst, 2009

The end result, was the William Amherst. She was designed and built by the same shipbuilders as the Labrador support-ship, and replicated much of the design where possible. Utilizing the same hull pattern, it was amended to allow the vessel to use a transport deck with three access ports (two to either side and one on the stern) to allow the fleet to transport either a reinforced mechanized company, or a foot infantry battalion. She was intended to serve a similar capacity for the RNFN as the Canterbury did for the RNZN. Whilst not fast, as she retained the single-screw arrangement from her half-sister, she had an additional bow thruster added to improve her maneuverability. She was fitted with a large landing deck and hangar to land and support Chinook helicopters, in addition to the standard helos of the RNFAF. Two LCVP were also added to allow for greater flexibility.

However, these ships were more for strategic sea-lift than to make contested landings, and were only armed for self-defence with a single 30mm and Phalanx CIWS.

While not deemed the most effective of its type, it was considered successful despite some of it's more glaring shortfalls. Primarily its' speed, handling, and sea-keeping, which left much to be desired. It's size and poor handling dramatically limited what ports and harbours it could call on, scaling back significantly how many parts of the country it could dock and land it's contents. However, as with most RNFN ships, she has come into her own and continues to serve the fleet, NATO, and UN humanitarian operations, with gusto.

My first amphib. I tried to be reasonable and use the same hull I used before, and kind of make a cross between the Canterbury and the Albion. I hope it worked. All feedback really welcome as I'm sure there can be improvements made.


Last edited by whitey_nl on July 11th, 2018, 1:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 10th, 2018, 7:49 am
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Looks an interesting design.
I the layout looks good but I wonder if it wouldn't be a little cramped, but it looks fairly reasonable for a low-end ship, that as you say is more for sealift than an assault platform.
One minor point, you might want to move the liferafts above the LCVP as I'm not sure they'll be much use there.

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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 10th, 2018, 10:58 am
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Hood wrote: *
One minor point, you might want to move the liferafts above the LCVP as I'm not sure they'll be much use there.
Ha. Fair point. Fixed!


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 10th, 2018, 12:56 pm
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Only 2 minor comments: we have better looking LCVP's and vehicle doors drawn in shipbucket :P Other then that, looking very good!

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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 11th, 2018, 1:26 am
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acelanceloet wrote: *
Only 2 minor comments: we have better looking LCVP's and vehicle doors drawn in shipbucket :P Other then that, looking very good!
Got me on the LCVP. Have it updated. I didn't think the door looked too out of place though. I'd happily consider a better fitting alternative though, if pointed in the right direction.


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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 22nd, 2018, 8:46 pm
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Back again! The only way to take my mind off the bloody heat and humidity is to work, be it around the home, or around my MS Paint. So I've finally finished one of WWII era ships that are going to serve as the beginnings of my current AU. I'm trying to flesh out their early fleet to help the overall feel and history of my AU.

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"This is the Newfoundland Broadcasting Service. St. John's. Today, April 1st, 1932, by proclamation of His Majesty, George the Fifth, Newfoundland joins the other Dominions of the Empire with the founding of The Royal Newfoundland Navy. There were many huzzahs both in and outside of the House of Assembly in St. John's, where only three months prior, the House had passed The Naval Bill that served as the catalyst for today's proclamation. The Prime Minister, in the House today, said that the Government had already begun readying orders to procure ships to serve this new fleet."

For centuries, Newfoundlanders had served in various capacities with Britain's navies, both at home and abroad. Starting in 1900, the Newfoundland Royal Naval Reserve was founded to provide both Britain and Newfoundland with a force of trained reservists to supplement RN sailors in the North American and West Indies stations. Initially training onboard the former corvette, HMS Calypso. The reserve provided many sailors to the RN during the Great War. Churchill even stated that they were "the best small boat men in the world."

As the reserve developed into a larger force, it was eventually decided that it would be more economical for the government to take over the RN duties and create their own navy. As the RNFN was founded, it was gifted a few small vessels from the RN, but it would need it's own ships to create a nucleus from which to develop the fleet. The first such class of ships to be designed for Newfoundland, was the Terra Nova Class.

[ img ]
HMNFS Terra Nova, 1934

The Terra Nova class was designed as a joint venture between Newfoundland and Britain as a short of "light destroyer" (being before the concept of the DE). Smaller than a regular destroyer, she was intended to serve first and foremost as defends of Newfoundland's sovereignty and commercial trade, with a secondary duty of supporting the RN in times of war. They were simple vessels, designed with only two boilers to save space, they had a relatively sedate flank speed of only 28 knots, as they were envisioned to serve in concert with destroyers, but not necessarily keep up with a full destroyer flotilla.

They also were unique for their age as being designed and built with an enclosed bridge, to better weather the harsh north Atlantic waters.

They were relatively well armed for their size however, but also used a lot of recycled weapons from RN ships. They carried four 4" Mk IX naval guns, two on the bow and two on the stern, along with a stern depth-charge rack. A minor AA armament was fitted in the form of a two quad-Vickers 50 caliber machine gun mount.

While not considered the equals of the thoroughbreds that were fleet destroyers, the two ships of the class were considered good boats in service, and would prove their value in the following decades.

[ img ]
HMNFS Terra Nova, 1943

As the ships continued their service, and helped train the dedicated cadre of the RNFN, they would truly come into their own during the Second World War. As Newfoundland entered the War on September 2nd, 1939, the Government immediately offered their service to the RN, and were among the first ships of an Imperial navy to serve alongside the ships of the RN. Their service, along with the other ships of the fledgling fleet allowed a few RN ships to be freed from convoy duty to serve in the Home or Mediterranean fleets.

Despite more than several close calls, and even managing to sink a U-Boat each, the ships needed refit, which they received part-way through the war. The "Y" 4" mount was removed to allow four K-guns to be fitted, along with ASDIC. The remaining 4" mounts had shields added, along with a more modern gun director system and radar. Lastly, two twin 40" Boffin mounts were put in place of the earlier Vickers mount, to provide a beefier, if still limited, AA capability.

The ships would see out the way in the Atlantic on Convoy duty, before finally returning home to Newfoundland for good in the Winter of 1946. Five officers and ratings would receive the DSC for their wartime service, as well as a plethora of other awards for the fleet.

[ img ]
HMNFS Terra Nova, 1952

After the war ended, the RNFN looked to acquire second hand RN and USN ships to beef up their fleet as the Cold War grip took hold. Initially, it was intended to pay off the Terra Nova and Labrador, but a new post-war government in 1948 decided to give the ships a brief reprieve while new ships were acquired. A series of minor upgrades were made and, after a stint of service off the coasts of Korea during the war there, they were retired from service.

The post-war ships featured several changes from their earlier versions. The main guns were removed, and replaced with three twin 3"/50" Mk27 DP mountings, which were among many re-used USN weapons obtained for a song from the Americans, who thanks to the lend lease agreements, had several bases scattered around the country. The stern depth charge rack had long been replaced with a Squid mortar. And lastly, space was made for the mounting of two twin Bofors 40mm on surplus Hazemeyer mounts.

The ships would continue to serve until their replacement by the Little class in the late 50's. Both ships were paid off and retired. Initially both were to be scrapped, but a grassroots effort and private donations save Terra Nova. She is currently berthed in Lewisporte as a museum ship.

HMNFS Terra Nova
HMNFS Labrador


My first attempt at WWII era ships. Not my forte, so any feedback would be welcome.


Last edited by whitey_nl on July 24th, 2018, 8:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JSB
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 22nd, 2018, 9:32 pm
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I think they look very "blocky" and high for 30 DE? Specifically the enclosed bridge looks more CL than DE?
http://www.shipbucket.com/drawings/756
and I would land the TT etc so they don't count as DD tonnage for the LNT?

I don't see why any of them would serve through after WWII as they would be worn out if not more likely lost in action in BoA? Surplus better ship would anyway be available by then as well?


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whitey_nl
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 22nd, 2018, 11:57 pm
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JSB wrote: *
I think they look very "blocky" and high for 30 DE? Specifically the enclosed bridge looks more CL than DE?
http://www.shipbucket.com/drawings/756
and I would land the TT etc so they don't count as DD tonnage for the LNT?

I don't see why any of them would serve through after WWII as they would be worn out if not more likely lost in action in BoA? Surplus better ship would anyway be available by then as well?
Noted. I've revised the design. I've reopened the bridge, as it would likely generate too much role if it was enclosed. I've deleted the torpedo tubes and added an additional gun in the place.

With respect to their post-war service, I've tweeked the backstory to dramatically scaled-back their post-war service. I agree that they would be worn out, but that being said, even some of the earlier E/G and G/H classes served for a time after the war. And the sloop and frigate classes even longer. And based on some quick calculations, the average RN destroyer had a 1/3 chance of being sunk. So I'll just say that each ship benefited from a healthy dose of luck.


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 23rd, 2018, 8:02 am
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It's a nice sloop design and a very good first WWII design effort.

I would be tempted to move the forecastle break at little further aft and perhaps enlarge the aft deckhouse for some more internal room, maybe another whaler or small boat amidships too, right now the midships area looks a little empty.

As to the drawing, your missing shading under the overhangs and maybe add some equipment and deck fittings. As JSB says, right now it looks a little blocky because its lacking details.

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Dominion of Newfoundland and LabradorPosted: July 23rd, 2018, 9:54 am
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Interesting drawings and I concur with JSB and Hood, need a few more details to improve the look of the drawings.

For the 1943 version, there would be extra depth charge throwers mounted along the sides, aft, to give a better 'pattern' of charges. Those would have been mounted 1940-41. The extra afterdeck space Hood mentions could then also be used for extra depth charge storage. Much needed for the Atlantic Convoy escorts. Most destroyer escorts during this period were also removing the 'Y' gun as well (Have a look at the long range escorts converted 1940-41). Made handling the depth charges easier.

Most obvious missing bits from 1943 drawing is RADAR. The ships would have been fitted with air/sea search units and other bits and pieces. Have a look at the O/P class destroyers completed 1941-42 for the radar fittings that would probably be aboard.

With the 1952 drawing, the depth charge rails aft would have been removed by then. Again a lot of RADAR would have sprouted aboard ship.

A list of dimensions and other stats is always nice to have as well.


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