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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: July 27th, 2010, 2:11 pm
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After the outbreak of WWII, Komintern had to prioritize it's military production. In naval affairs it mented that the priority was to be given to the most needed and neccerical designs. Need for more destroyers to fullfill different roles of escorting, fleetwork, ASW and general purpose role was one of the main priority. However the existing pr. 45 design was considered to be very badly suited for massproduction and thus a simplified design was created. It became know as the pr. 46 or the "S" class. It was based on the Pr.45 hull but with simplier low-preassure boilers. This affected mainly of the speed which fell to 36 knots maxium compared to the 42 knots of the Pr.45 design. The hull and interiors were designed so it could be build faster and in all possiple shipyards big enough to launch the hull.

First patch of 8 ships were fitted with 4 single 122mm guns as there weren't enough of the twin mounts avaible. 2 tripple 533m TTs were carried as well as 5 45mm AA guns. First flotilla was laid down in late 1940 and commisioned in next year. Seccond flottilla followed with 6th 45mm AA gun in place of the mainmast. 3rd flottilla replaced the two single mounts in the bow with a twin mount and added 3 single 25mm AA guns in the B position. Fourth and the last flottilla featured two dual 130mm guns in A and X positions and Y position fitted with the 76mm twin AA gun. All four flotillas were build continuesly trough 1940 untill 1943 in three different shipyard, Nikolayev being the one of them despite it being surrounded by the German troops. Despite their fast construction, these ships were sturdy and robust design and many of them outlived their "highclass" cousins of the pr. 45 design.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: August 5th, 2010, 2:21 pm
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After Komintern was signed the London Naval treaty, it started to classify it's cruisers in corresponding to international standarts. Among it, Komintern was allowed 100 450 tons for light cruisers. Of the old Byzantine's era ships, only the surviving members of Admiral Neverskiy class were rated as light cruisers tough they were never concluded into the tonnage limit by the Kominterns. Three vessels were only slightly modified at the begining of 1930's with removal of one funnel and adding a midship catabult for one float plane. During the WWII, the ships recieved additional AA armament, 8 45mm and 2 100mm guns.

As the shipbuilding industry started to regain activity towards the end of the 20's, Komintern felt neccerical to awnser Italian and French build up in the light cruiser cathegory. This gave birth to the famous MK (Malnyy Kreisera) series wich followed the Italian Condottieri classes on "call-and response" means. First series was known as Pr. 21 or Mk-1. It was 8000 ton standart displacement and featured 8 152mm guns in four twin turrets. Seccondaries were 8 twin 100mm guns and 2 quad 37mm AA guns (very similar to Brithish Bom-Bom weapon). One floatplane was carried. 4 ships were build and completed between 1931-34.

As the London Naval treaty was sighned as side-clause for major Brithish-Komintern trade agreement, Komintern felt neccerical to follow it in order to regain good relations with UK and France as the world-revolution didn't came and the new regime had to adopt more pragmatic and realistical governing and foreing policy. However it was felt that the tonnage limit for light cruisers were too tight and bigger the design, less hulls could be laid down. Thus the follow-on to the MK-1 was assigned smaller displacement and reduction of both armament and armour. Eventually the MK-4 design emerged as a Project 24. It was smaller, 6700 tons standart displacement and with 7 152mm guns in two twin mounts in the bow and one triple mount in rear. Seccondaries were the same 100mm twin guns but only 3 mounts were carried. AA armament was changed to the new enclosed, armoured quad 37mm mounts which two were carried. Total of 3 aircrafts were carried. 4 ships were build 1935-37.

However in foreing navies, the trend with light cruisers were scaling up and the need to awnser to Italian Condottieri III and IV classes as well as to the French La Galissonniere class led to the MK-6 design or Pr.24Bis class. It featured increased armament of 9 152mm in new tripple mounts. Number of seccondaries were increased back to 8 in 4 twin 100mm mounts. AA armament were redisposed into centreline bow and stern. Displacement rose to 9 000tons standart. 4 ships were build right before the war between 1937 and 1939.

Altought the MK series were par to foreign light cruisers in the Mediterainian and european waters, need to the awnser to the ever increasing thread of japanese naval precence in Asia became evident. The increasing size and power of "Light Cruisers" abroad led Komintern to adopt much larger cruiser design, the Pr.65. It followed the development of Japanese Mogami, US Baltimore and UK's Southampton class with 15 to 12 tripple 6 inch guns and with displacement exiding the 10 000 ton limit of the treaties. Pr. 65 was very similar in size and power to the British ideas. 4 triple 152mm guns were fitted. Seccondaries were the new B-54 twin 100mm guns and 3 quad 37mm guns as well as 2 45mm single AA guns were fitted. Displacement were 10 500 tons standart. Total of 12 units were planned but only 2 were finished before the Barbarosa and 6 additional hulls finished after 1943 when the Odessa pocket was freed and the shipbuilding resumed in Nikolayev. Total of nine were eventually fielded when the last ship, Kraznyy Gruziya was commisioned after the war in 1946.

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Novice
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: August 5th, 2010, 6:31 pm
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Beautifull little cruisers Golly.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: August 5th, 2010, 7:07 pm
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Thanks...the beatifull BIG cruisers are to follow...

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ALVAMA
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: August 5th, 2010, 7:12 pm
Who, Damn pretty awesome! I can't wait to see more!!!! Seems I've to make a Dutch cruiser bigger aswell!


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Cybermax
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: August 6th, 2010, 12:43 am
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Wow, I love those cruisers! Nicely done.


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: August 7th, 2010, 9:41 am
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A nice set of cruisers,

Some of these have appeared as Novgorod ships in the past but these look better.

The Pravada looks great for the period. You've got that Russian "guns all over the place" look too. What is the seaplane type?

The Pr.21 Mk-1 looks good, I assume the light AA are 37 or 40mm qauds like the British 2pdr in style?
The reload torpedoes on the MK-4 are an unusual but welcome touch, might be a bit dodgy in wartime though if they get hit by cruiser gunfire. Cool R-10 seaplanes too!

The Pr.65 looks very impressive for a light cruiser, like a Belfast or Mogami in size and weight of fire. Why only two 45mm? It seems you have room for more up forward. Very good design overall

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: August 7th, 2010, 9:56 am
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The Mk-1 has quad 37mm AA guns which is based on the orginal Vickers gun. So in effect it's pretty much same type of gun as the british Pom-Pom. Rest of the cruisers has newer quad 37mm fully enclosed mount which features newer guns. It's however different gun than the single 45mm AA guns fitted with destoryers and Pr. 65.

I actually haven't come up with the designation of the seaplanes, I'm still working on the aircraft chart but I will post it and give more info when I post my carriers of this era.

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Coming next: L/M Moskva, some research ships, pr.26bis, Pr.1144 remakes and Project 1143 complete redux.



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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: September 9th, 2010, 7:45 pm
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After the revolution one of the first major capital units which were introducted to the fleet were Konstruktor class, formely known as the Rimskoy Sodruzhestvo class. These large cruisers which were laid down during the WWI, were de facto the forrunners and inspiration to the washington heavy cruiser type ships build in foreing navies after the Washington Naval treaty. Altough the Konstruktor class featured 152mm main armament they were still regarded as heavy cruisers both in the Red Fleet and abroad due their overall size. A major reconstruction took place, as with many other older warships during the 30's where the ships gained new taller padoga-style tower, a catabult for aircraft and seccondaries in the form of 6 single 100mm AA guns.
(note, altough the design features some similarities to Enrr's Ansaldo cruiser projects, none of the parts are kitbashed)

Altough Komintern joined to the international naval treaties only after the London Naval conference in 1930, it already fielded a pure treaty cruiser design at the end of the 20's. Project 20 emerged from the need to awnser to new Japanese and British heavy cruisers. It featured three tripple 203mm guns in centerline arragment as well as 4 twin 100mm AA guns. Relatively large hangar was fitted amidship afbat the large funnel. Two ships were completed 1930 and 1931.
(all gredit for this design goes to Martin from warship projects forum, this is my tripute to his wonderfull AU design)

Altough signing the London naval treaty and therefore jurisdically tying to apply to the treaty limit of warships, Komintern introduced series of large cruisers in the 30's. The so called "project X" was one of the most peculiar and remarkable warshipdesigns ever fielded by any navy. The concept was actually a fusion of two paralel studies. The first one called large heavy cruiser outpowering the ever increasing size Japanese cruisers as well as to awnser to the new german "pocket battleships" and corresponding designs wich were to follow. To save the burden of trying to stretch the paramets of the naval treaties, Komitern decided simply just ignore them bluntly. The new cruiserdesign featured 4 tripple 240mm guns, an unusual calibre choise choosen to outrange the existing 203mm gun cruisers. Seccondaries were new 130mm twin mounts wich had in theory a dual purpose role. These were to be extremely fast and thus very long, 249m hull design was adopted. The seccond concept was an idea from a "flagship of the revolution". A sort of gunboat that would sail to where ever the proletarian uprising needed help. The concept called for large cruiser size vessel which was not only able to fight "borgerous" naval units but having significant shorebomparament capacity as well as a capacity to carry troops and their equipments. The long hull of the project X design allowed large hangar/storage for up to ten seaplanes. Aside those, two motor torbedoboats were carried as well as two minisubmarines.
All these plans came to live as pr. 25 Kraznyy Egipet class. Two units were completed 1936 and 1938. Third unit, Kraznyy Kintai completed in 1939 was slightly different, it featured larger hangar/storage for additional marine units and their equipments. The minisubmarines were dropped out. During the war, Kraznyy Sumatra had the catabult and seaplanes deleted and small landingcrafts to launch amphibian attacks to the Japanese occupied ilands in the pasific.

Altough pr. 25 was already biggest cruiserdesigns around, Komintern sougt even bigger design, close to the orginal Battlecruiser ideas. The develpment started with enlargening the pr. 25 but cutting down the non-tradditional cruiser roles. At first, 9 254mm guns were soughted but eventually 305mm guns were chosen. The seccondaries were also scaled up to 152mm but additional 100mm guns were added to give better AA cover. Three units of the pr. 69 were planned, two of them completed just before the Barbarosa, the third hull was finnished after the war into an aircraft carrier.

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Coming next: L/M Moskva, some research ships, pr.26bis, Pr.1144 remakes and Project 1143 complete redux.



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Novice
Post subject: Re: Byzantine/Komintern AUPosted: September 9th, 2010, 9:29 pm
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These are awesome BIG cruisers. Love the idea of project 22. Very beautifull ships and drawings.

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