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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 4th, 2015, 6:33 am
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The Vaygach IB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaygach_%2 ... breaker%29.

Vaygach was built in Finland, were also several IB built, perhaps Finns are more experienced, but I sure Sweden can do the job.

In theory, a nuclear ship has unlimited range (counted in years), restrictions are only food/water supplies for the personnel aboard. Russian ice class of Vaygach is LL2, explains in article. If Salide can operate nuclear ships, why not going nuclear.

For the design: Four decks (as you have now, but fourth a bit shorter), US inspired mast, funnel from Vaygach but rectangular somehow, one crane at bow and other on the top of hangar. Another idea is to fit five decks amidships, in two separate blocks connected by ladders like Almirante Irizar.


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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 4th, 2015, 7:44 am
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Yes, from all the foreign contractors out there, im sure our offers would be most lucarative and flexible for customers choises ;)

That said, if you are wondering wheter go normal diesels or nuclear, you should propably focus on the power output you are planning to get. That naturally comes from the level of icing you intend to break and possible range requirments for those breaking operations.

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 4th, 2015, 6:52 pm
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The ice class given for the Vaygach indicates Arctic sea and coastal operation less than 2.0m thick. For this icebreaker, it will provide service to Salide's Antarctic territory, Marie Byrd Land (*mua-ha-ha!*). Thus, I think the LL8 would be more suited, indicating ice up to 3.0m in winter and continuous running in a 2.0m ice field.
I think ultimately I will go with nuclear propulsion, because of the thickness of the ice in the Antarctic seas. It makes sense at this point.

While ya'll raise a good point about Finland building icebreakers, I was initially only planning for Götaverken to build the hull and main superstructure, be towed as a hulk to Salide, and then outfitted by Koden-Wickes which would include the installing of the nuclear powerplant. Or would it make sense to just have the entire ship built by one shipyard? (If I do that, then I'll call the Finns ;) ).

@odysseus, I do like your idea of having two blocks with a space separating the two. So what I'll do is have a space a ways behind the Ventilation stack, and then a 5 deck superstructure, changing near the hangar into a 4 deck area. I'll have a crane on the right side, above the hangar, and two smaller cranes on the bow. I'll add a radar mast on top of the ventilation stack (similar to the mast-on-funnel setup on the Polar Sea), and another mast just ahead of the rear crane (like on the Almirante Irizar). I think that'll look pretty good.

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 4th, 2015, 7:35 pm
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The fact that you're planning on using a nuclear installation skews the equation quite a bit. Does the Finns have the trained manpower to install a nuclear power plant? Do you want to put your nuclear technology in the hand of not only foreign nationals, but foreign companies on foreign soil?
Will the Finnish government allow it? And given the late eighties timescale, will the Soviet Union allow it?

Also, you flag has a decidedly middle eastern flair to it.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 4th, 2015, 7:44 pm
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doesn't Finland have a nuclear power station from before. Whit that expertise, it should be far from building an smaller one for ship usage. they are basically the same... But then Theory over practice...


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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 4th, 2015, 8:50 pm
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Well, they built the Vaygach and the Taymyr, so I have no concerns with them being able to handle a nuclear ship, but that's an important factor... Like I said before, Salide does have the capability to build and install nuclear powerplants, so that may just be the way to go (and in that case, with just the building of the hull, the Swedes should have no problem with it).
You raise a good point, concerning the Finn's location next to the Soviet union. However, (and I'm not sure if this would be a factor) Salide will not be a part of NATO and will officially have a neutrality stance (it won't take place in any of the major proxy wars), so I would assume that the Soviets wouldn't have much of a problem with it. Plus, assuming a 2 year build time, the Soviet Union would have or be close to collapsing, so it's on a fine line.

Yes, the inspiration for the layout of the flag was based on that of the UAE. However, this flag would have been in use from the 1800s or so, predating the flags from the African/Middle eastern area that share similar layouts and colors.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 5th, 2015, 7:33 am
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I think our knowhow in operating nuclear reactors is top class and should not posess any proplems in regarding nuclear powered shipbuilding, but naturally since there isent any nuclear reactor industry, the actual machinery installation would need to be made by 3rd party, perahps Salide by itself in this scenario. What comes to location of Soviet Union, it should not poses proplems in exports, it certainly did not do so in real cold war era. Only reason why Finnish ice breakers didn't see much sales in NATO countries, was that the few who would actually need such ships, (USA and Canada) had such large shipbuilding industry and practices themselves, that getting foothold on those markets wouldn't have propably been possible even if Finland would have been NATO member itself.
I think your choise should (in the very end) come down to what designs you think looks best or produces best drawing. Swedish ice breakers (the few they build themselves and didn't brought from us) have their own distinguished looks, so does the other minor Baltic breakers of German and Danish build. USCG ice breakers have their own very nice looks and features, and so does Canadian ones.

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 6th, 2015, 12:20 am
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Thanks for clearing it up, Golly :) .

For the most part, it's finished, aside from the two cranes (indicated by the red arrow).
[ img ]

She will be built in Finland, with a reactor(s) shipped from Salide. For the name, I decided on Gothic, one of the main tribes that settled in Salide (alongside the Priteni, Belgae, Veneti, and Saxon, which will be names of other icebreakers).

RSCGNS Gothic
Builder: Hietalahti shipyard (Finland), outfitted by Koden-Wickes Ltd. (Salide)
Build Date: 1991
Launched: 1993
Length: 457ft (468 to rear bumper)
Beam: 92ft
Draught: 29.5ft
Max Speed: 20kt max, 3knt in 2m ice
Propulsion: 2x Nuclear Reactors, 3x Steam Turbines powering 3x shafts, turning 3x 18ft 4-blade props (38kW total)
Ice Class: LL8
Tonnage: 19,680 tons
Endurance: 7.5 months
Complement:
134 Crew
80 Scientists
130 passengers
18 Gyrodyne Detachment
Aircraft Carried: 3 Donnelley GH-3 Gyrodyne.

I'm also looking for some ideas on what branch to have the ships in. As they are now, they are a part of the Coast Guard. However, I don't think Coast Guard is fitting, given Salide's location (away from areas requiring icebreaking). I was thinking to just have a separate entity called the Royal Salidan Arctic Commission (which would not only cover the icebreaking part, but also anything related to research and science in Arctic territories), with the ships crewed by the navy, but operating under the RSAC. Thoughts?

BTW, can anyone figure out the inspiration for the snow crawlers? ;)

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 6th, 2015, 6:16 am
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She is really nice, someone heard me. I think that Vaygach has some king of funnel also.

So she has two reactors with three steam turbines. Suppose one large for propulsion and one small for electric power? or one powerful enough to power two steam turbines and one small for the third turbine?

For the operation of RSCGNS Gothic this in real world this is the way British Antarctic Survey works. Or you can register her to Salide Navy, but crew from Merchant Navy and scientists from RSAC.

snow crawlers: They seem Soviet to me.


Last edited by odysseus1980 on January 5th, 2018, 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Kingdom of SalidePosted: April 6th, 2015, 7:44 am
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It looks nice design, but I noticed that you dont have any shaddow under the overhangs? or is this still WIP?

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