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eltf177
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 7th, 2016, 9:51 am
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I like Teanntas' rebuild but I just can't see that amidships turret - with machinery already there there's no way to fit a barbette...


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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 7th, 2016, 12:35 pm
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really nice to see this thread continuing, well done ships once again!

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 7th, 2016, 9:39 pm
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Hi everyone

and thanks for the praise!

@eltf177: you would be right if Teanntas was a later design, but she is of 1912 vintage, way too early for autonomous machinery units. All turbines are aft of the rear funnels; amidships there were the underwater torpedo flats and coal bunkers, both of which were removed in her rebuild, creating space for the barbette! ;)

Greetings
GD


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eltf177
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 8th, 2016, 8:01 am
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That makes sense. And normally such a rebuild wouldn't be cost-effective but you explained what was happening. So I guess this does work, and she's a lot more effective now...


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Skyder2598
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 8th, 2016, 10:01 am
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Great work ;-)

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Shigure
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 8th, 2016, 11:21 am
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This is really awesome! Goodjob!

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 8th, 2016, 5:52 pm
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Fantastic work! :)


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Rowdy36
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 8th, 2016, 5:56 pm
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Great looking ships! Glad to see this thread active again :)

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 11th, 2016, 3:40 pm
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Hello again!

2. Cruisers of the 1920s: The Urgharda-class
While the Thiarians were able to cut some corners size-wise in the completion of Cathgangaid and Mioscais, the next class needed to adhere to the 6.000-ton size limit stipulated by the Treaty of Norfolk. Given the decrepit state of most of the cruiser force remaining after the first world war, new cruiser construction became urgent by the mid-1920s, and a series of preliminary studies was prepared. As the Germans also found out during that time, a balanced cruiser design was not really possible on 6.000 tons. While the Germans sacrificed protection, seakeeping and structural strength to achieve the desired armament and speed on their K-class, Thiarian requirements for South Atlantic operations stipulated sturdy hulls and good seakeeping capabilities. Furthermore, the Navy would not accept less than 32 knots speed or less than 8.000 miles range. In the end, armament had to be curtailed to meet all other requirements, resulting in ships of many virtues, but with a rather feeble punch. The existing 140mm/55 gun was chosen as main armament in order to incorporate four twin mounts; developing a 155mm weapon was considered too time-intensive and not really improving firepower, because only three twin mounts could be installed on a 6.000 ton hull that satisfied all other requirements. Five single 100mm guns of new construction and excellent performance (especially in terms of ROF, less so in terms of accuracy) were installed as heavy flak, and they were complemented by eight semi-automatic 37mm cannon in four twin mounts forward. HA fire control was state of the art, LA fire control less so, still relying on directors and rangefinders on separate mounts. With twelve 559mm tubes in four triple mounts, the torpedo battery was very strong; unfortunately, the 1925 pattern torpedoes themselves were a disgrace, being mechanically unreliable, prone to duds and too slow to be accurate at long ranges. Armour was quite comprehensive, with a 60mm belt covering a large portion of the hull and a complete armoured deck of 20mm at the ends and 40mm over the vitals, especially the latter giving a large immunity zone against 152mm shells at long range; steel quality as usual was very good, on par with the best US alloys. The hulls were sturdy and roomy and their seakeeping was generally rated very satisfactory. Propulsion was provided by three-shaft geared Curtis turbines of domestic manufacture and nine Thiarian-designed narrow-tube boilers, putting out 72.000 hp, which was just enough for a design speed of 32 knots; best continuous sea speed was 29 knots, which could be upheld under poor weather conditions. In service, range was 7.000 miles at 15 knots, some 15% less than designed. They were designed for, but not (yet) with aviation facilities. These ships continued the design trend towards heavy tripod mainmasts started with Cathgangaid and Mioscais and looked like a mix between contemporary French and Italian light cruisers.

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It took the Thiarians till 1928 to complete their designs and scratch together the necessary funds; all four were authorized that year, and they were laid down two each in 1928 and 1929, all at private yards. Urgharda (Gaelic: Vanguard) was ordered by the CTS yard in Abernenui, Fiontar (Gaelic: Quest) at the Riordan yard in Cathair Riordan, Minaire (Gaelic: Audacity) at the Boldisaire yard in Carriolar, and Siocair (Gaelic: Just Cause) at the CSCA yard in Abertemar. Building times varied widely; Urgharda and Siocair were completed in less than thirty months each, Fiontar needed 41 months and Minaire no less than 49. The short building time of Urgharda seemed to have had some impact on the quality of her construction; she had a reputation of unreliability throughout her service life. Fiontar also suffered from unreliable boilers and was incapacitated for half a year by a boiler explosion in 1937. The other two were much more satisfactory. When all three were operational in 1933, Thiaria had already obtained a lift of the ban on naval aviation, and all four embarked one french-built flying boat as an interim measure from 1932/3. In 1932, they also received eight single 13mm machine guns to supplement their AA suite.

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The catapults were finally installed in 1937/8, and the air group was increased to three machines per ship, one on the catapult and two stowed in the open on both sides of the forefunnel. In the same refit, the single 13mm machineguns were replaced with four quad mounts, and funnel caps were installed to reduce smoke interference with bridge, fore- and mainmast. The aviation arrangement was not liked by the fleet, because the stowed airplanes were exposed to the elements and frequently suffered damage, but the installation of a hangar - as contemporary heavy cruisers had - was ruled out to keep topweight down and retain stability.

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When the war started, Minaire was undergoing routine boiler maintenance; the other three went straight into action. Fiontar came under fire of the British cruisers Lancaster, Somerset and Phaeton during the battle of Portiasc and was sunk on January 31st, 1940, becoming Thiaria's first cruiser loss (although only by a margin of minutes); Urgharda was torpedoed by a British destroyer and barely made port, and Siocair was considerably damaged by gunfire of the British heavy cruisers HMS Hampshire and HMS Surrey. On the plus side, Urgharda's guns sank the destroyer that had damaged her, and Siocair - together with the heavy cruiser LT Rinnfiain - dealt so much damage to HMS Northumberland that she had to break pursuit and let the Thiarian cruiser escape. Although she looked pretty bad, Siocair's damage turned out to be rather superficial, and she was fully repaired quickly; Urgharda however, which had to be taken in tow for the last part of her return leg, had her back broken and was pretty much beyond economic repair. She was only repaired due to the grave shortage of cruisers after Thiaria's initial defeats against the British. While she was in yard, Siocair and Minaire became operational again in April and June 1940, respectively, and were employed on patrol duties for the most part of 1940, while the many damaged heavy units of the fleet were repaired. Siocair shelled Gough Island in October and landed some Marines; Tristan da Cunha was similarly taken some days later by Minaire. On the return leg, Minaire was torpedoed three times by HM Submarine Pandora on November 2nd, 1940, but remained afloat long enough for nearly all her crew to be taken off. She was the final Thiarian loss during the disastrous year 1940. For the rest of the year and most of 1941, Siocair was the sole operational unit of her class. Before the Thiarians finally regained the initiative with their invasion of New Portugal, Siocair was fitted with a complete radar suite and swapped her 13mm machineguns for a total of sixteen 20mm cannon. When she sailed with the invasion fleet, she looked like this:

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During the invasion, Siocair was with the main transport fleet heading for Sao Jorge da Mina, where she silenced a strong Brazilian coastal battery. Afterwards, she was briefly assigned to the carrier strike force and took part in a major convoy raid in May that ranged north of the equator for the first time; the convoy however managed to evade. When Germany attacked the Soviet Union in June, Siocair was one of the Thiarian ships on which communist sailors mutinied; the mutiny was put down, but the subsequent purge put her out of action for three months. She was still not fully worked up during the Battle of Punta del Diablo, but went to New Portugal in December together with the freshly repaired Urgharda to provide fire support for Thiaria's ground forces. Urgharda had been under repair for twenty months. Apart from the internal modifications - including several hundred tons of structural strengthening and additional armour to the magazines, requiring her to be bulged - she now looked markedly different from her sister. Her forward tripod had been replaced by a compact tower mast, hangars for two scoutplanes alongside the forefunnel were erected, and HA and LA fire control had been brought to the latest standard. Her five single 100mm flaks were swapped for three twin mounts and all her semi-automatic 37mm guns were landed and replaced with four fully automatic 37mm quad mounts; twenty 20mm cannon made up the light flak. Her radar suite was brought to the same standard as Siocair's; only the directors of her 37mm cannon did not yet have radar guidance. Standard displacement went up to 6.800 tons, and speed dropped by one knot to 31 knots.

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Both frequently operated close to the Uruguayan and Brazilian coast and supported the Invasion of Florianopolis in May 1942. Afterwards, Siocair needed new gun barrels, while Urgharda remained on station and helped to fight off several Brazilian and US ground-based air strikes against the Thiarian fire-support fleet; the Brazilian fleet at this time did not dare to engage the Thiarians. Siocair returned in June, unchanged except for the new barrels. Both were in reserve at New Portugal during the Capetown raid and the battle of Meanhchiorcal; when the Brazilians tried to take advantage of Thiaria's tactical defeat in this battle, both sortied together with the heavy cruiser Trasolas and turned away a Brazilian squadron of four cruisers in an engagement on the open ocean on November 22nd, 1942. Urgharda and Trasolas sank the Brazilian light cruiser Primero de Marco with gunfire; Siocair did not score, but hit the heavy cruiser Almirante Abreu several times without being hit back. During the Panama raid, the three cruisers sortied again for a foray into the Indian Ocean in order to distract the enemy from the absence of many vital Thiarian units. On January 14th, 1943, they located a small Recherchean convoy of eight merchants covered by three destroyers en route to Capetown and annihilated it; Siocair and Trasolas each accounted for one destroyer; Urgharda sank four merchants, Siocair one, Trasolas three. From March, Urgharda and Siocair again supported Ground operations off the Brazilian coast. During the Battle of Faoigabhar in May 1943, they were in New Portugal; they raced for the battlefield, but came too late and had to return without being able to save the amphibious fleet. Siocair was torpedoed by the Brazilian submarine Trinidade on the return leg and lost twelve meters of her bow; repairs took till October 1943. The Navy used the opportunity to comprehensively modernize her, although not quite to Urgharda's standard. When she re-entered service, she had received a heavily modified forward tripod mast, an all-new fire control system, new radars, the same heavy and medium AA outfit as Urgharda, thirty 20mm cannon, a windshield forward of the airplane stowage position, Asdic, hydrophones, two K-guns and two depth charge racks. She also swapped her torpedoes for 1943 pattern 559mm fish, which had Oxygene propulsion, based on Kokoan plans. Like her sister, she had to be bulged to compensate for the added weight, and she now displaced 7.000 tons standard. Her speed was reduced to 30,5 knots.

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During that time, Urgharda served as a convoy escort, usually assuming the role of escort flagship; she twice came under attack by enemy submarines and was targeted by five air strikes between May and October 1943. In September, she accompanied two heavy cruisers on a raid against a British troop convoy headed for Sao Paulo, which was saved by the sacrifice of its close escort group; Urgharda was slightly damaged. She was relieved by Siocair in early November for some urgently needed R&R. She missed the battle of Bancos Pequenos, an all-out effort of the Thiarian fleet against a strong British-Free French-Recherchean task Force trying to bring an amphibious force through for a tactical invasion behind Thiarian lines in late December 1943. Although the surface forces made no contact, Siocair shot down six enemy airplanes. The British were finally driven back by a combination of carrier-based and land-based air strikes. One British counterstrike scored an 454kg bomb hit on Siocair, near her aft funnel; she made port with only her port screw still turning and her stern totally awash. Between January and March 1944, both sister ships were out of commission. Urgharda re-entered service in early April, having been re-equipped with the latest radars, the same ASW fit as Siocair, six additional 20mm twins for a total of 32 barrels and a new HA fire control system.

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She missed the Battle of Anfa Caolas and was again used as a convoy escort on the Montevideo route. Siocair joined her in May, and both came under heavy British air attack in the battle of Muirgiaid on May 12th. Urgharda got lucky, but Siocair was hit by two airborne torpedoes. She lost her bow forward of Turret A and had to be taken in tow; 70 miles before she reached Montevideo, both Siocair and the towing destroyer LT Trean were torpedoed again by HM Submarine Tudor and both sunk. Urgharda escorted the damaged battleship Conaire home and had no other operational sortie before the start of the Thiarian civil war. She was one of the first units of the fleet that joined the rebellion against the Murchada regime and sailed for An Trionaid on August 31st, 1944. After the Armistice, Urgharda was retained by the Thiarians as one of the six cruisers of the postwar fleet, but as she was quite worn out, she was only used for training and laid up in 1953. She then lingered till 1968 as stationary training vessel and was scrapped in 1969.

Greetings
GD


Last edited by Garlicdesign on June 12th, 2016, 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Blackbuck
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: June 11th, 2016, 3:46 pm
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Now those are pretty looking cruisers!

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