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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: January 9th, 2021, 2:32 pm
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Hood wrote: *
Heuhen is the master of drawing big ships, nobody else quite masters the oversized super-capable ship.
Its a a functional looking ship, slightly overkill in weapons but a capable top-end cruiser.
thank you.

might be overkill for British standards :lol:

main guns for ASuW with limited ASW and AAW capability
secondary guns for mainly AAW and some ASuW
two GMLS, for obvious reasons
Mistrals for minor targets like for example helicopter's etc. and as a last line of defense that doesn't need the entire ships combat system

But then she is an cruiser and do what cruiser name imply, go on long range cruise


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: January 9th, 2021, 11:52 pm
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And this is how I the major MLU would look like, more or less. History around this ships, would be that only a few got a full MLU and some got and partially MLU due to difficulty to those modification. Those that got the full MLU, would be ships late in the production line and would have already and upgraded electronics and some layout changes and other modification based on experience from the first ships in the class. But no "have to redesign" changes, based on experience from the first version in the class.


Proposal would be:
- swap GMLS with VLS in similar fashion to Ticonderoga class cruiser 60+60 cell.
- Change on illuminators, from Mk51 to Mk60
- Moving of ASuW launcher from for-deck, to abeam Hangar, firing above the hangar.
- removal of 40mm twins, and replaced with Phalanx (on license of course), when available (mod depend on when MLU is being done) (late's ships in class might receive RAM toward the end of carrier, to build up experience with the system)
- added RHIB in addition to exciting boats, current boats gets an upgrade, one boat upgraded as and VIP-boat
- Replace Gun fire control radar with an combined fire and missile control radar, due to compromise of putting Phalanx in the old space for Mk51, to get as good as possible firing angle
- removed old radar on funnel, replaced with new radar. The new radar is in the same family as the old radar that was on the forward mast, but more upgraded, but can use the same internal computers or alternatively have it all upgraded as well (depending on MLU)
- Radar on froward mast replaced with a new 3D radar, of a home design, but based on American radar design.
- some more coms.
- moved of some coms. mast but not all (those around the phalanx are going to have a bad day!)
- closed in some area in the structure for more internal space and for moving some of the internal layout, due to upgrade of VIP area.
- for later MLU there was proposed for Mk-48 Mod 3 (in earlier version, it was proposed for Mod-0/1), but are waiting for the final decision from the Admiralty
- I am going to remove the two aft mistral, and perhaps replace the two other mistral, with 20mm guns (any suggestion for a good "of the shelf" model)

What would you like to see on a sub-sub class version of this class (or a total new class) based on the same hull.

one of the things I need to do, If I remember is to design a improved smoke deflector on the funnel.

[ img ]

The impossible design change, is that if during an MLU, someone decide to split the funnel and drag them away from each other... that would just be crazy to do... but a new class on the same hull... hm!



If I was going to design a preceding class, that work together/supplement the existing class, it would be a small class of perhaps 2-4 ships and they would be nuclear... with somewhat similar armament. are 10-20 meter longer hull big enough to support a nuclear reactor (1 large or 2 small). this class would not do any foreign port visit, only Navy base visit due to many countries have restrictions on nuclear powered vessels, would limit "ambassador" -work the older conventional upgraded cruiser's are good enough for that


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LtMaverick114
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: January 14th, 2021, 4:19 pm
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Thats a good looking destroyer!

_________________
Upcomming:
Kuban AU, Fryssia AU (with MitcheLL) and random stuff

[ img ]


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Ro-Po Max
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: January 14th, 2021, 8:07 pm
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Verry complex and expensive project. Great work! :)


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: January 14th, 2021, 11:16 pm
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Ro-Po Max wrote: *
Verry complex and expensive project. Great work! :)
well I like to pull the string a little... sometimes I forget how thin that string is :lol:


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: January 22nd, 2021, 4:35 pm
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In the late 80's early 90's when the class was starting to reach it's limit, they received a minor upgrade few year after the MLU, this upgrades was done when, the ships of the class was in for there annual maintenance. They are starting to show there age and that technology is running away from them, but they are kept in service until there are found a proper replacement for them.

They are kept in service (mainly for):
- There command facility.
- long range capability and the crew comfort during long range (there was a cinema onboard, a small heated pool (not for swimming), lager gym (you can also run around the entire ship on the outer deck).
- capability to operate alone but also lead a fleet.
- firepower and stability of the platform.

Disadvantage of the class was:
- heat from the funnel was more than the internal heat exchanger could handle (was later improved, but never 100% solved)
- Operation cost and maintenance cost was "extensive" "but the value of having the ship operational was more important."
- The powerplant had it's problems was fixed first after 20 years of service with new turbine engine technology

The Upgrade that was done, was mostly internal and some minor upgrade external:
Internal:
- Upgrade to crew cabins
- Upgrade to C&C among them was an upgraded weapon control system, mainly computers that could be replaced, what could not be replaced was refurbished and improved.
- Food storage was extended and improved to meet new regulation
- There was found space for ships one improved cinema and also a larger gym.
- improved splinter protection after new data received from test of newer weapons.
- new Turbines to reduce downtime and improve fuel-consumption but at the same time but also reduce the number of large turbines needed, due to new turbine was more powerful compared to size, compared to the old ones
- VLS would get an minor electronic upgrade, and also an new control system (for mainly testing new system, for upcoming future VLS) by Ab-tech (Caledonia technology giant)
- CIWS would only get an combat manage system and electronics upgrade, now implementing them more into rest of the ships system. But there was not done anything to the CIWS them self, except some minor repair and upgrade to parts that have shown an early fatigue problems
- Mistral launcher received and upgrade, making them semi-automatic (controlled from C&C or local), but need to be loaded manual

External:
- Adjustment to funnel, where funnel was angled outward to lead more of the fumes away from the funnel.
- New 140 mm main gun on fordeck, for improved AAW capability and able to fire new type of ultra long range rocket assisted shells (it was found easier and more cost effective to just change guns, then trying to upgrade old guns with it's old electronics and mechanism)
- one of the sat-come was replaced with an additional illuminator on the aft mast, it come in the addition to the gun-fire control radar on the forward mast, that received upgrade where it can assist in missile and fighter tracking, due to the new main gun.
- main "Ultra"-long range 2D radar received and "upgrade package" it was made as an bolt off, bolt on upgrade, it received an low energy medium range 3D radar that would work together or when the main Long range 3D radar is not in operation.

The upgrade was done in the following way. The first ships received upgraded parts that was stored in the reserved storage, that had been upgraded earlier, thus they could mostly do a bolt of, bolt on upgrade. Except where there is needed to do more work. The old parts that was taken off, would be refurbished and upgrade, and installed on the next ship in the class that went in for maintenance, thus saving on maintenance time by some %. It help also a little on the cost of the upgrade on a class that was nearing it's end of carrier.

[ img ]


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: January 22nd, 2021, 11:25 pm
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I went bonkers and this happend... but I managed to stop my self, luckily! :lol:

https://i.imgur.com/mFkPPNa.png

would defiantly be close to ridiculous :!: :lol:


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: January 30th, 2021, 12:13 am
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let's go back to the frigates that served Caledonian Navy between 1950's- to 1980's

Some might remember me posting these light frigate/escort some time ago:

The City of Marial class, her represented by the first batch and the MLU version:

Ship of the first batch; F35 Sir Alaman
[ img ]
MLU version of first batch; F35 Sir Alaman
[ img ]


I have started to work on the larger frigate/destroyer that are more or less a version for the more "extended" operation. and would be a part of Caledonia Navy frigate task group (1-2 large frigate and 3-4 light frigate. Occasionally 1 destroyer or light cruiser)

The work list is long, the class will be bould up in similar fashion as City of Marial class, one ship type many variants (3 to 5 variants, depending when build or batch), but all have the same base equipment/design

- classic gunship/ASuW/ASW/AAW/escort variant's
- MLU versions
- design might change
- might make here slimier, to give here more a felling of a high speed frigate (aka. 30 to 40 knots depending on how stupid I want to be... I am leaning more toward max 34 knots)
- placement of equipment might change
- change of forward main turret might change (now it is an Crazy 135 mm compact twin turret, that alone do give some problems!)
- If a SeaKing pilote is crazy, he can land, it is space!!!
- The Terne looking thing aft, is a sort of an 5 barrel ASW-mortar, that fire small either just ASW-grenades or depth charges. Nice to use if you want to fast make an ring of "shock" around the frigate!?! :?

At the moment I am taking a break from it, to think (my favorite is a Mk-112 Matchbox, Mk-29 GMLS, torpedo and single 57mm or 5"+ gun (with possible for a second turret, if I don't want the capability to land a helicopter))

[ img ]


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: January 31st, 2021, 12:55 pm
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Agoninan class Frigate

Politically it was called a Frigate, but in reality it was an destroyer. They was build to be part of the backbone of the Navy, working next to and or in task group with Marial class frigates. it was build many of them, just like Marial class, while Marial class was cheap, Agonian class was more expensive. The class started to truly become a more powerful warship after it's early and late MLU. (there was build 62 of Marial class, only 31 Agonian class was build

Building of the class was spread over 6 commercial shipyards that did the main construction, they did the hull, superstructure, engineering and crew interior (berthing, mess, other crew facility) those ships was then send to 2 of the Navy's main shipyard, where everything else will be installed; radars, weapons, combat-systems, etc. At one point at one of the Navy shipyard that had a little small harbor, it was packed full of ships, you barely could get a dingy between them!

Powerplant: The powerplant had issues and draw backs, mainly due to the funnel design, preventing the vessel from using all it's engine power, there was used a backstop solution that worked good enough and that was good enough for the navy, later batch would see a change in how they get the fumes out of the boilers trough a "small funnel" but that as well was a backstop solution, that didn't relay solved the problem, The Navy said, if the had invested the money for a new and larger funnel, they could probably get the class up in 35 knots+, but they needed the class out there fast, to replace an aging fleet of destroyers that was barely hanging together and for the Navy 31 knots was good enough, after all Marial class was capable to do 35 knots and short sprint at 39 knots (with risk), and most of the time, they would rarely patrol at higher speed then 15 knots, only when they need to move in an emergency, they need that speed.

Agonian class
year: 1958 to 1974
Shipyard: 2 Naval shipyard and 6 commercial shipyard
Build: 31
Active: 4 (as of today, school vessel, test vessel, etc.)
Reserves: 13
Lost: 3
Scrapped: 10
----------
Displacment: 2800+ tons, 3200 tons after MLU
Length: 117.6 meter
Beam: 13 meter
Draft: 4.5 to 5.0 meter (7 meter with sonar) (Shallow draft, for shallow coastline)
Propulsion: 50000 to 60000 hp, 2 small, 4 large oil-fired boilers (for improved response time);
2 geared steam turbines; 2 screws (cramped but wide funnel, gave limited the engine power to bellow 60000 hp)
Speed: Due to funnel design, restricted (naturally) to +-31 knots, theoretically could do over 35 knots with improved funnel
Range: 5800 miles to 6500 miles, at 16 knots
Complement: 348 men
Armarment: Varied;
Standard:
- 135 mm twin dual purpose cannon with a experimental semiautomatic loader (that could be operated manually, something it most of the time did)
- 2 x 20 mm machine guns
- Pre-MLU: 2 or 3 57 mm secondary dual purpose guns, after MLU 2 57 mm guns
- MLU: 1 x Mk 29 GMLS for RIM-7H later 7M+
- MLU: 1 x Mk 112 Matchbox for ASROC and Harpoon
- MLU2: 1 x Mk 112 Matchbox for ASROC, Harpoon and Tartar later one equipped with home made missiles (build with a modified magazine, unique for the class, with larger missile capacity)

Radar and electronics, is standard and light, with few upgrades. (a class of ships that had the power, but never was truly capable to show it full force) (although the new fire-control radar on MLU-2 fixed a lot of the problem, with it's triple dishes and internal combat radar)

[ img ]
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Rainmaker
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: February 1st, 2021, 3:27 am
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Very interesting designs! On the helicopter-carrying variant, perhaps you could split the funnel with a Y-duct to enable you to fit a hangar behind the main superstructure, like the Canadian St. Laurent and Annapolis - class destroyer escorts.

Also, the original Batch 2 variants (pre-MLU) are a bit questionable to me - you have 4x 57mm guns which seems like overkill. You could drop either the fore 57mm or the two 57mm amidships and install ASROC straight away, rather than retrofitting it at a later date. I think that would give you a lot more utility as an ASW platform.


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