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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: November 2nd, 2021, 7:45 pm
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I'm trying to do something a little different, perhaps I am gripping to much in one vessel. But the basic idea, is that this 150meter vessel is a stepping stone toward a 180+meter vessel with various type of drones, but at the same time is a frigate.
I'm not a electronic expert, so I'm not going to write about the radar's, it's just advance with lots of capability's!


Canaria class
special frigate. drone mother/command-frigate

in early 2000 Caledonia Navy started a project for a future frigate, at the same time as they was designing/building the next frigate to replace current frigates. The Project was first officially started in 2017, and by 2023 the request went out to several shipyards.

The Class was originally classified as a special frigate, but later they was given the classification Drone mother/command frigate (or as it was called internal "DC-mother"). The class was designed as a frigate and a drone mother/command ship. The hull was based on a stretched version of Beran class This class was more or less a stepping stone toward a: fleet command and drone-mother ship-

Canaria class
Planned: 6
Build: 1
---------------
AAW/ASW Frigate (command and mother ship for drone)

Displacement: 8000-9500tons
Length: 152,4 meters
Beam: 20,84 meters
Draught: max: 8,99 meters
Powerplant: 2 large, 2 medium turbines, and 6 diesel generators + 4 small backup generators
Speed: 30+- knots
Range: 6000 nmi
crew capacity: minimum: 75. max: 180
Armarment:
1 x 140mm DP cannon (not always deployed)
4 x 40mm twin DP cannon (alternatively a rocket launcher can be deployed in place for two of the 40mm guns. There is also possible to mount laser in this position)
4 x 16cell Nulka, Chaff launcher

VLS:
- forward:
1x32 cell Mk41, modified VLS (RIM-66 (later upgraded), RIM-166 (later upgraded), ESSM, VL-ASROC)
2x8 cell mk41 strike length VLS (ESSM)
2x4 cell VLS (for larger missile, NSM)
- aft:
1x8 cell mk41 strike length VLS (ESSM)
1xNavalized NASAM-launcher

Aviation: 1 x medium helicopter, 3 x drone helicopter
Flex/ASV deck:
2x14,5meter drone boat (with interchangeable armament/equipment: towed sonar, torpedo, missile, grenade depth charge, mortar, etc.)
up to 4x6,5meter drone boat (usually equipped with 12.7 mm or other type of small caliber weapons. Can mount rocket)

[ img ]


I just hope I didn't do any big mistake :lol:


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sebu
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: November 2nd, 2021, 9:40 pm
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The best modern frigate-design... well; quite close. :) is it? :o


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Eeo
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: November 4th, 2021, 8:32 pm
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I'm pretty sure the marked overhang on the bow will render the low radar observability features (popularly known as "stealth") moot.


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: November 12th, 2021, 8:28 pm
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Interim Heavy Cruiser of the Caledonia Navy!

I haven't settled down on what type of heavy cruiser design I want, or in what direction I want it to go. It's going to replace Admiral Kruz class (Heavy Cruiser), that I had drawn Way back:

Admiral Kruz class:
https://i.imgur.com/ZWsQCtV.png

Admiral Kruz class was more a 50's-60's, H-Cruiser that gradually got equipped with missile as they started to appear.
----------------------

Now i'm trying to find out what type of H-Cruiser is going to replace Admiral Kruz class. Missiles are entering with full force, semi-modern system is starting to get available... Basically: "To Kirov, or not to Kirov!",
My option is many, a class of 3-5 ships, that either is a:

- Alt1.: (fleet destroyer)/(Bastion defender)/(Massive AAW plattform), armed with medium missiles, that carry small nuclear warhead or conventional warhead. And enough other type of missiles, to say: "hello"
or
- Alt2.: (all theater, fleet protector), with enough system to cover all theater in air, surface and underwater, but no Nuclear warhead. unless if she carry ASROC with Nuclear warhead or heavy torpedo with nuclear warhead.

Alt1. fleet destroyer:
https://i.imgur.com/p0cHyj8.png

Alt2.: all theater, fleet protector:
https://i.imgur.com/1EOAEBy.png


This is a very slow process and probably not finish this year, in fact I have already been thinking and occasionally put down some lines over the past 8 month. The problem I find, is that the ship is so big that it make things small... so you start to add things, and some more things, until you think this is just stupid, so you start to remove things, redraw again, with a new layoute (repeat)


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: November 18th, 2021, 12:34 am
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Have updated the Heavy cruiser above.

What I have done:

- Change of layoute
- move main part of forward superstructure more aft.
- liftet aft radar tower up to same height as the forward radar tower
- moved position on "Revolver"-GMLS-VLS silo
- removed all 4 twin 56mm guns
- added more remote controlled 30mm turret (have now 14 of them, lett there be led)
- adjusted barrel height and shape of the 180mm twin turret (there will come a version that is armed with 2 x 140 mm twin turret, at a later date)
- Moved main reactor compartment, slightly
- enlarged the forward facing sonar cover
- changed from on deck hanger, to bellow deck hangar.
- simplified superstructure slightly
- Moved Heavy torpedo to a separate compartment, aft bellow helicopter deck. (Helicopters dosent carry heavy torps, so they dosn't need to be close to hangar)
- moved light weight torpedo, to the hangar deck, in a separat compartment.
- changed stern a little, since I need space for both the roro/flex-ish deck and the towed sonar
- added 8 silos with 3 reloads each, for mini tactical nukes, or High yield bombs or even simpler, just a heavy tungsten rod. (probably with ballistic flight characteristic)

To-do:
- lots
- if there is something, this is the time.


Question:
1. shall I go with that the radar can guide missiles or go with a separate guidance radar
2. use GMLS, os just go straight for VLS or similar
3. how many helicopters do you thing it would carry and what types. If we go for western design (I are not going to try to draw something new), shall I make the hangar deck, full height longer, since I have space.


With current layoute, with GMLS and Nuke silos and revolver VLS, 224+ missiles, not including on deck missiles boxes

[ img ]


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: November 20th, 2021, 8:23 pm
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Even some more update, it starting to become something that I can like:

what have been done:
- total change of the layoute, minimize superstructure, increasing hull volume
- moved aft reactor, flipping engine room, make it more connected but still seperated.
- adjustment on 30mm layoute
- change of main guns to 2 x 76mm guns
- I have now missiles launcher aft and forward.
- ship is now split into, three main sections: aft: aviation; forward and middle; weapons; middle: electronics.
- slight simplifying design and armament, making it just a little more balanced.
- Moved torpedo battery, Now is in on location, just bellow flight deck with two launcher for light weight torpedo and two launcher for heavy torpedo
- give it more a look of a vessel that are in-between the late 70's and the more modern vessels in the late 80's early 90's

To do:
- radar mast and electronics
- adding box-launcher for ASuW weapons
- adding nulka(ish) system etc.
- details and shading

Armament at the moment:
- 8 x triple revolver magazine launcher for tactical nukes or "large"-warhead missiles. (can be loaded with normal missiles, if so each tubes can handle double or triple missiles (depending on missiles)
- 3 x Mk 26 GMLS (missile capacity: 3x64=192)
- 4 x Revolver launcher for AAW-missiles (like Sea sparrow) (twin pack) (missile capacity: 12 tubes x 4=48 x twin pack=96) (space fro 2 more launcher)
- 14 x remote controlled or automatic 30mm close in weapon system
- 2 x 76mm guns DP

missiles count in this config: from 312 to 360 missiles (384 with two more revolver launcher)


[ img ]




Fast question:
1. shall I give it an angled flight deck for VTOL or is helicopter more than enough?
2. can I replace the aft mk26 GMLS (64), with two mk26 GMLS (44) flanking the 76 mm guns?


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: November 21st, 2021, 10:51 am
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Wow that is some ship, even makes Kirov look like an undergunned wimp!

I'd stick with helicopters.
Two Mk 26 aft might be pushing it given the internal hull space it would take up.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: December 3rd, 2021, 4:24 pm
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Hood wrote: *
Wow that is some ship, even makes Kirov look like an undergunned wimp!

I'd stick with helicopters.
Two Mk 26 aft might be pushing it given the internal hull space it would take up.
Thanks for the comments :D

I think Kirov have overall more punch and a better self defense capability, at least moe heavy quipuet. I'll compensate with different radars and different missile system. but in 1 vs 1 fight. My bet is on Kirov, just on how easy she can swarm any opponent with here missiles... But then Kirov is mostly a floating fortress build to protect a boarder (question is where is that border going!)

They are both similar in size, mine is 10 meter longer, but then I have a huge flight deck!


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: December 3rd, 2021, 6:43 pm
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There might be some writing errors and other errors. I tried to make it fit into some operation and missions that have happend up until now. Feel free to give me suggestions for operation it could be participating in, but also other things or funny things (don't hold back)

Sherif class

Was ordered in the late 60's, when the admiralty, saw what other nation was building, but also they saw a need for a ship that could give a much better protection around carriers, but can also support in other missions, where there was need for something more. The class was to become an icon of the Caledonian Navy. a class of ships most navies would want to challenge. In naval exercise, the class repetitively showed it's capability in putting up a multiple layer protection screening but at the same time could pick done targets, precisely, thanks to the combination of NATO ammunition and Caledonia's own "cheap" ammunition. But at the same time it was protecting, it had excellent quality, when it come down to target and attack multiple targets at the same time, both defensively and offensively.

Design:
There was many proposal, everything from standard missile cruisers, to a carrier variant. but in the end the design that won approval from most section of the Navy and the armed forces was Project 6784, by Havok Heavy industries (some have become the navy stable ship builder). They proposed a larger plattform, that had both a flight deck and weapon deck. The first proposal had a larger flight deck for VTOL with a ramp but with a reduced missile armament and a combined nuclear and diesel powerplant. But the navy concluded with the current fleet of super carrier and light carrier, there was no need for more carrier capable ship in the navy, they wanted more missiles. The next proposal they recived from Havok industries was a down scaled flight deck with more missiles systems and more variants of weapon systems. The proposals was then send around to Caledonias admirals and fleet commanders. at got an approval from all fronts, but with some adjustment to the design.

But Fleet Admiral John d. Harod, said it in a nice way, when he described the ship in the media: "Wherever it goes, navies will keep more than one eye on it"

Operations:

The class would be operating mostly in home waters but when it went out, it was on long missions on longer mission there was a 4 crew rotation, by using crews from the other ships in class as a rotation basis.

The class could one day be seen escorting an US aircraft carrier, for in the next moment, just hanging around in the North sea or in the pacific. For later to patrolling in water close to "problem" countries. Then in the next moment it operating together with a NATO fleet (even when Caledonia isn't part of NATO, just on a co-operative level). Sometimes it can visit one of the "allied" countries. Like the time they docked in Tokyo bay, and created a big BBQ party for the Japanese. for then a year later docking in a random African port and arrange a tivoli & circus + giving medical aid. For in the next moment patrolling "slowly" by Iran, escorting commercial ships.

Other then that, it would just hang around in Caledonia waters, slowly pulling on it's sonars

Operation participation, task:
- Under US command, during Gulf-war. Re-armed by US Navy with Tomahawks for the operations (later removed, would be equipped with Tomahawks until the class received VLS)
- Caledonia operated together with USA during the second Iraq war, at the same time the class was to give long range missile support, the navy had there own mission as well.
- Was in the Atlantic during the 2012 summer Olympic in London, decided to hang around in the area.
- When North-Korea started to test fire it's "IBMS", Caledonia in coordination with USA, South Korea and Japan, stationed on of the ship in rotation, in the Japanese sea. The only message Caledonia sendt to North Korea, was don't test her, although they would do so anyway.
- on route to Japanese sea, they had to go trough the "Chinese sea", would occasionally "play" with the Chinese navy. When a Chinese submarine tried to get closer, Sherif class would just activate the Type-3402-Havoc Heavy sonar at max power. hopefully they wasn't to close.




-------------------
Name: Sherif class
Builders: Havok Heavy industries; Befer Shipyards; Rambert Naval shipyard
Operators: Caledonia Navy, (1th, 5th and 9th fleet)
Build: 1977 (1980)-1992
Ordered: 6
Build: 4 (2 never finished)
in reserve: 1
Cancelled: 2
Active: 2 (2 refit, 1 rebuild)
Retired: 1 (current)
Moto: "We came"
--------------------
Type: Heavy guided missile helicopter Cruiser (battlecruiser), fleet escort (capital ship)
Displacement: 27,000 tons standard; 32,000 tons full load
Length: 263.04 meter (863 feet)
Beam: Hull: 29,56 meter (97 feet); Flight deck: 38,40 meter (126 feet) (flight deck)
Draft: Hull: 8,83 meter (29 feet); Sonar: 14,02 meter (46 feet)
Propulsion: 2 X BC2N Reactors powering 2 propulsion turbines powering 2 electric motors and 2 small electric motors: 175,000 shp.
4 x Diesel generator mounted forward and aft, port and starboard. to increase the ships electricity production but also function as backup.
Speed: Officially in excess of 31 knots
Range: Classified, Unlimited
Expected reactor life: 45 years
Complement: 800, life raft for up to 2500

Sensors and processing systems

Combat system:
- HALIAR 1 Combats system
- DELAR Combat system (backup)

Radars:
- ACX-Heavy Long range 3D radar (multi function, Search and target, illuminate) (officially can target more than 150+ targets)
- ACE-Light Short range 3D radar (Multi function, navigation, Search, flight deck control)
- SPS-50 2D (in a secondary role)
- Cf8 long Range Navigation radar
- 3 x of the shelf standard navigation radar
- 4 SPG-51 illumination (can carry 6) (in a secondary role, since ACX-Heavy can do the same work)
- Several Communications systems

Sonars:

- Type-3402-Havoc, Heavy sonar (active-passive) (extremely powerful, limited in operation during peace time, can kill divers that get to close!)
- Type- 2807-Screamer, light sonar (active-passive) (The sonar that is always in use)
- Towed cable sonar, (length: classified; detection method: classified)
- Towed active sonar (of the shelf)

Electronic warfare and decoys:
- 8 Decoy dispensers (400+ rockets)
- Nulka derivative

Armament:

Missiles:
- 3 x Mk-26 GMLS mod 2 (firing, standard NATO missiles and ASRCO)
- 6+1 x Type-28 R-VLS twin Carousel (firing standard NATO-AAW missiles + Caledonia AAW missiles and ASuW missiles) (ASuW missiles from the inner carousel, since it's a full lenght)
- 8 x Type 4 R-VLS BLM carousel (firing tactical nuclear missiles and capital ASuW missiles with ballistic trajectory or direct)
- 6 x short in defense missile launcher

Guns:
- 2 x 76mm Rapid-DP guns (water cooled/heated)
- 1 x Fast Forty/70 Type3 (mounted on the forward reactor compartment lid, can be easily removed, by removing some bolts and cables)
- 14 x C30 30-mm gatling gun (integrated into both of ships weapon system, can also be controlled remotely)
- a number of movable 12.7 HMG, mortar and rocket launcher

Torpedoes and others:
- 2 x twin light weight torpedo launcher (can fire electronic warfare torpedo)
- 2 x twin heavy weight torpedo launcher (can fire electronic warfare torpedo) (fire standard torpedo and ASW missile) (can fire nuclear warhead torpedo

Armor: 70-80mm plating around reactor, with Kevlar over vital areas. Composite armor protection over vital area including reactor area. Splinter protection.
(reactor compartment can have it walls filled up with water or other type of fluid)

Aircraft carried: Normal: 2 heavy; 3 medium; 3 light helicopter. Flight deck and hangar build to handle Chinook or similar.
Flight deck can in an emergency handle VTOL aircraft, land and take of (for take off, aircraft must be as light as possible and capable to lift straight up!)


[ img ]


If you happen to have some good top-view parts, I would be interested in them. It can be helicopters, radars, etc. also things that I can use as an example for my own top-views on some if my parts.

I wonder how it would hold up in the Anti-Submarine Task Force Flagship Challenge.


And yes I know there things that could have been done different, if you spot something that are on a level of WTF, plea say so. I might have overkilled it again, specially since the platform is so big. Fast question UNREP, placement, permanent or a sort of fold down system?


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Caledonia??Posted: December 3rd, 2021, 7:23 pm
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It might just be me but it feels as if this has not enough hull depth for it's length. The missile launchers also go VERY far forwards, and the deck markings at least around the Mk 26's make no sense at all.
It is an interesting design though......

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