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Krakatoa
Post subject: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 29th, 2016, 11:31 am
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I have been kicking around thoughts of this AU for some time. Giving the German Navy a genuine dual purpose 5" gun to rival the US and UK timelines.

It is difficult as one of the best AA weapons was the triaxially mounted twin 4.1". That mounting on the battleships down to the big cruisers served its purpose well. But, the German Navy considered it too light to be considered as an anti-torpedoboat gun. So mounted the 5.9" guns for that purpose. That mixed armament meant that the German Capital Ships were carrying several thousand tons of extra armament not really required. The answer to that conundrum of course is to fit a dual-purpose gun system. I envisage three/four dual purpose mountings, a single shielded or turreted mounting for use on cruisers as secondary armament, and on destroyers as main armament, a twin light turret for mounting on destroyers and AA cruisers as main armament and big cruisers as secondary armament, last but not least an armoured twin turret for mounting on the larger capital ships.

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While most of the Kaisers fleet did not make it to WW2, having sunk themselves in Scapa Flow, I will do a few of them in various WW2 outfits. Gives me the chance to do a few more drawings than just Scharnhorst or Bismarck.

This first drawing is one I did as part of the Deutschland Revolution. This is a slightly larger Bismarck type with 8x16" to match an enlarged French reply which also had 16". I did two versions, one with 5.9/4.1, and the one below with the 127/50 armoured turrets.

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The second drawing is the Spahkreuzer re-armed as an Anti-aircraft cruiser.

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More drawings of everything from Z class DD's through to H class monsters will follow.

Some of the main contributors to the German Real Life and Never Were sections are maomatic, DG_Alpha and Garlicdesign. I would be more than happy to see drawings from them being entered to this thread. Give you all another line of vessels to draw.


Last edited by Krakatoa on April 30th, 2016, 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Biancini1995
Post subject: Re: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 29th, 2016, 1:50 pm
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Very nice,can't wait for more ships!

Just a little question this Topic will be like your Fisherless AU?

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Tempest
Post subject: Re: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 29th, 2016, 4:11 pm
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Nice idea Krakatoa, it was a great failing of the Kriegsmarine not to develop a dual purpose armament for its warships like the U.S Navy did.

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 29th, 2016, 7:04 pm
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Thanks for the comments guys.

Tempest:
If you would like to do some ww2 based drawings of your L20 and others from your thread and post them here, they would be most welcome.


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Tempest
Post subject: Re: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 29th, 2016, 7:10 pm
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Thank you I will take you up on that offer :) I'm actually dabbling on a 38cm (15in) Mackensen, and a modernized Mackensen at the moment.

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emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 30th, 2016, 1:40 am
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Very nice work...this looks interesting!

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 30th, 2016, 8:34 am
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My third entry is another rebuild of a rebuild.

To make the building times quicker for the (my) 3rd and 4th Derfflinger class Battlecruisers, and to give them a more powerful armament, the Hindenburg and Yorck retain the original hull but exchange the 8x12" with 6x13.8". In the WW2 late 1930's upgrade, in the original drawing they are fitted with 8x5.9" and 10x4.1". This armament is replaced with 14x5", and the 37mm gets an extra four twin mounts. With this rebuild being done in 1937-38 for Hindenburg and 1938-39 for Yorck, the 3x3m SL4 rangefinder is the controller for the AA side while a separate Low Angle rangefinder is in place on the forebridge. The new Atlantic bow gives the ship a long, low, mean look, but it is the positive buoyancy forward that is a great asset.

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Tempest
Post subject: Re: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 30th, 2016, 9:15 am
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I do like this Krakatoa, to me the modernisation looks real, I think you should try a 8 X 14" version as well. What do you think? I think the hull could take 8 X 14".

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 30th, 2016, 9:49 am
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To add a fourth turret to the Derfflinger hull might be a step too far. The extra weight and space requirements would definitely impact on speed and probably armour as well. The extra length forward does give a feeling of much extra space, but it cannot be translated backwards to allow the front turrets to move forward enough to make the fourth turret aft a possibility.


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Dual Purpose KriegsmarinePosted: April 30th, 2016, 10:16 am
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Next in line is a BIG cruiser.

The Hipper class always amazed me how big they were with only 8x8". Making them a little bit bigger to fit four triple turrets of eight inch makes them much more capable ships. (Yes JSB they will be at least 50% more than the treaty allows, but when did the Germans ever care about treaties?) The original Hippers carried 12x4.1" as secondary armament. I have done a straight swap for the light twin 5"/40cal turrets. Just so you can see how big they are. The Yorck above is 714 feet with the Atlantic bow. Prinz Eugen here is 717 feet with its Atlantic bow. I have always had a soft spot for the Hippers. In comparison to the Pocket Battleships, the Hippers are a much better investment in my humble opinion.

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