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MihoshiK
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 3rd, 2016, 1:03 pm
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To be fair, the envisoned "real" T43 was a perfectly workable design. The only thing really missing was magazine capacity, and you could probably fit the T82 magazines if you are willing to lengthen the ship a bit.

Heck, the design is big enough that you might very well fit at least one side with the larger magazine.

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Last edited by MihoshiK on May 4th, 2016, 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 3rd, 2016, 2:02 pm
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Does this 3in/70 related with the Mk6? : http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_3-70_mk6.htm

Think also that these T82s can receive the 4.5in gun (like real RN use).


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 3rd, 2016, 4:10 pm
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Hood wrote:
Thanks for those comments Ace.
Only now do I realise that the Spruance drawing in my files I used is an old one, rather than one of your newer drawings.
Doing this drawing confirmed to me how crap the Spruance would be for any RN use. There is just not the topside space necessary for the fire-control equipment, the USN got round that by having those massive masts and to be honest the baseline Spruance was very lightly armed anyway.
Spruance was the archetype of the "steel is cheap and air is free" mantra. Pretty impressive how much could be loaded on the hull, but USN doctrine didn't require very much of a large fast seaworthy ASW escort at that time.


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rifleman2
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 3rd, 2016, 6:00 pm
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very nice but more like Kidd class than Spruance?


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 8th, 2016, 4:22 pm
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Type 43 Surrey Class

Here is the ideal Type 43 I had in mind. Something altogether different, my thoughts were, what if the Dukes had a bigger elder sister?

The background to these ships is much as real-life except some development paths were followed that were not in the real-world. A planned "RN Spruance" design (see above) was rejected as expensive and uneconomical. A conventional design measures were made to reduce RCS and hull noise and this modern design was probably the premier anti-aircraft asset in Europe at the time. The Falklands War resulted in a few design changes but essentially the Admiralty felt it was on the right track and the Government released extra money to complete development of the Type 43 ship and systems. Eight were planned to replace the Counties but just as this class got into its stride the Cold War ended and so the class were curtailed at six.


[ img ]
Type 43 as completed

Six ships commissioned:
HMS Surrey D98 July 1986
HMS Cornwall D99 May 1987
HMS Dorsetshire D100 August 1988
HMS Glamorgan D101 May 1989
HMS Norfolk D102 September 1990
HMS London D103 July 1991

Dimensions: 510ft 6in (oa) length; 59ft beam; 22ft 6in draught (over sonar dome), 14ft (hull)
Machinery: Four 17,000shp RR Spey SM1A totalling 68,000shp
Speed: 32kts (deep and clean)
Displacement: 6,000 tons (deep load)
Armament:
1x1 5in L/54 Mark 45, fire-control by Type 909, eager to fit a modern gun larger than the 3in then in service the RN brought the Mk.45 off the shelf from the US
2x1 30mm DS-30 AA mounts
2x1 20mm Orkileon, not originally intended but after the Falklands two were fitted as additional AA firepower
Note: there was no CIWS fitted when these ships were completed, given the Sea Wolf and other systems already fitted it was felt the Phalanx mounts received from the US would be more useful on older ships to improve their defences, in time CIWS would be retrofitted to the Type 43s during refits. During the design phase the Hawker Siddeley Shield system using a modified Taildog AAM was considered and by 1986 the decision as to whether to fit a missile or gun-based CIWS had not been made.
1x 48-cell VLS system for GWS-31 Sea Dart 2 SAMs, fire-control by two Type 909M with two-channel fire control, the missiles had thrust vectoring, larger wings, midcourse-updating, new seeker with ECCM and system reaction was cut from 23 to 10 secs.
2x 16-cell VLS system for GWS-27 Active Sea Wolf, fire-control by two Type 912 with AESA arrays, based on the GWS-26 Sea Wolf Mod.2 with 10km range the GWS-27 added an active seeker allowing fire-and-forget and an improved motor provided 15km range
4x Woomba SSM, the RN wanted a new supersonic SSM as the subsonic Woomba was vulnerable to Soviet SAMs but no money was available for a replacement and a competition was held in 1986 to find a successor weapon which would be fitted on refit.
2x2 12.75in fixed A/S torpedo tubes for Mk.44 and Stingray torpedoes
2x Sea King or Lynx helicopters, hangar and flight deck sized for future SKR helicopter.
Electronics:
Type 966 NSR Mod.2 3-D array radar
Type 1030 STIR, back-to-back aerials
2x Type 1006
UAA-1 Abbeyhill
2x Millpost jammers
2x Type 975 jammers
2x SCOT antenna
2x Montana passive IR detectors
Type 2016 sonar

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Last edited by Hood on February 24th, 2018, 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 8th, 2016, 4:44 pm
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Photobucket stinks out loud. Here's a jpeg'd version, at least...

[ img ]


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 8th, 2016, 6:05 pm
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Great looking design.

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Blackbuck
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 8th, 2016, 6:05 pm
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I wholeheartedly approve of your chosen design aesthetic!

I take it that the directors are offset from one another?

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 9th, 2016, 5:20 am
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Proof that we could have a more handsome Royal Navy. Nice work!

Woomba SSM? I have never heard that before.


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: May 9th, 2016, 9:15 am
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erik_T,
Are you having problems viewing Photobucket images?

eswube,
Thanks!

Blackbuck,
I've always disliked the real T43, not just the odd centre flightdeck but the whole odd layercake looks and missiles and radars sprinkled all over it, if anyone drew something similar we'd laugh it off as a terrible kitbash! I felt a high value ship should have some RCS and since Types 23/24/25 and 43 overlapped in time to some degree it felt right to explore the aesthetic. This ship owes something to your Super T23 designs too.
The directors probably are offset, I think there is enough room. I had toyed with fitting 4x AESA but I felt the different fire-control methods for Sea Dart and Active Sea Dart would prevent that so I stuck with the mix of directors. I had doubts about having 32x Sea Wolves so high in the ship, I think it would work ok on the beam but that's the beauty of 2-D drawings, I can remove the portside launchers without having to change the drawing! I thought of a midships block on each beam but it would interfere with the uptakes and downtakes.

odyesseus 1980,
Thanks!
The Woomba was an Australian project to make an SSM version of the GAF Turana target drone with a radar seeker and 500lb warhead. The radar may have been taken from the SAAB RB-04. The Turnana was itself based on the Ikara missile.

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