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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 4th, 2018, 9:32 pm
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Were there not some proposals for an common launcher for sea dart and ikara (IIRC a single arm one) which could reload sea dart from below and ikara from the back? Even if not that good an idea, it gives some hope that your side-by-side arrangement is not that out of the box as you would think :P

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 4th, 2018, 10:20 pm
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I think that's either internet legend or so early in the development process that it wasn't well enough defined to reach the sketching stage. I'll look in my library tonight.

Hood, I don't really feel equipped to answer that question. I know USN systems fairly well but I am very much a novice on materiel from the other side of the pond. For example, what angle did Ikara launch at?


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 4th, 2018, 11:26 pm
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I remember this link:

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/ ... pic=5525.0


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 5th, 2018, 8:35 am
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Yes, that common Sea Dart and Ikara launcher was just part of a parametric study comparing various ASW missile systems (Ikara, ASROC, Malafon). It was not a solid proposal but just an investigation of what might be possible. It was not rated that highly. I've seen the actual file at The National Archives.

Actually it wasn't rated that highly. Interestingly a more concrete proposal that never went further was to use the Type 909 for tracking Ikara to remove the need for the dedicated tracker.

I will probably wait until I get to grips with the top view before deciding on the ultimate Ikara arrangement.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 5th, 2018, 9:30 am
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Does this AU include CATOBAR carriers like real life RN? And what about Harrier carriers?

I would also like to see the top view of Common Sea Dart/Ikara Launcher.


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 5th, 2018, 2:02 pm
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Hood wrote: *
Interestingly a more concrete proposal that never went further was to use the Type 909 for tracking Ikara to remove the need for the dedicated tracker.
That's a fascinating statement, and a strong insight into the "bad old days" of hardware-focused systems design. Imagine that statement today! Adopting a tracker/illuminator to also allow command guidance feels like it ought to be an easy software fix... but it really wasn't back then.


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Morten812
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 5th, 2018, 5:09 pm
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A blank version of the Westland WG.34 Merlin perhaps?

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 7th, 2018, 3:18 pm
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Some upgrades for older vessels

[ img ]
HMS Arrow, 1979

The two Orange Nell armed Type 80 frigates were retired from their primary duties quite early on due to the limitations of the SAM system. HMS Arrow became the trials ship for the Confessor SAM system, to enter service as the Sea Wolf and the successor to Orange Nell. A 12-cell VLS was fitted forward and all other armament removed. A prototype Type 996 radar was also fitted, along with a dedicated IFF antenna. She served on missile development from 1976 to 1992 when she was finally decommissioned. Other weapons tested aboard included Shorts Seastreak and development work on the Type 911 and Type 912 trackers.

[ img ]
HMS Slingshot, 1977

The other Type 80 frigate with the Orange Nell system was converted to a patrol frigate at the height of the 'Cod Wars'. The missile system and Limbo was replaced by a 375mm Bofors A/S mortar mounted forward. Her already upgraded SeaCat 2 systems (installed in the late 1960s) were retained and another MRS-3 fitted forward. Two triple lightweight torpedo tube mounts were also fitted and the old 40mm Bofors (removed in 1968) were replaced by 20mm cannon. HMS Slingshot served in this guise from 1976 to 1983.

[ img ]
HMS Crescent, 1993

[ img ]
HMS Comet, 1988

Following the Falklands War the Type 21 frigates received a single Phalanx CIWS aft and newer 20mm GAM-BOI mounts. By the early 1990s most had also received the Type 996 radar and GWS-60 Harpoon missiles instead of the heavier Woomba SSMs. During the early 1990s four of the class also received a Seastreak CIWS missile system aft, replacing the Phalanx.

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Ro-Po Max
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 7th, 2018, 3:38 pm
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Type 21! Very tasty design. :)


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2Posted: April 8th, 2018, 11:36 am
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I have decided to redo my upgraded Type 82s.

[ img ]
HMS Glasgow, June 1985

[ img ]
HMS Cardiff, July 1993

I wasn't happy with the previous Sea Wolf VLS packs fitted aft. While they might have just about worked in that location just ahead of the hangar, fire-control was a problem. Not being able to use the 909 trackers I thought about fitting a 911 on each beam but that seemed very wasteful for what was 2x8 VLS packs. So I have stripped out the Sea Wolf entirely. Instead the Type 82s get two Phalanx to replace the previous SeaCat 2 mounts and a Millpost jammer replaces each MRS-3. A Type 1030 STIR is also fitted, moving the NSR 3D radar to the mainmast. Two GAM-BOI and Sea Gnat chaff/flare launchers complete the upgrade.
Eventually around 1992 they start replacing the Phalanx with Seastreak CIWS systems. Also they get LIROD Mk.2 for the 3in L/70 twin mount and Type 1007 navigation radars, including one aft for helicopter control. The Sea Kings give way to the WG.34 in the mid-1980s.

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Last edited by Hood on April 8th, 2018, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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