Moderator: Community Manager
[Post Reply] [*]  Page 1 of 1  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
waritem
Post subject: Cretan AU: Romanian navyPosted: November 24th, 2017, 11:21 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 354
Joined: August 4th, 2011, 6:37 am
Location: France
1.Turning point of the century:
At the end of 1890's the romanian navy was facing the reinforcement of two of it's opponents. On one hand the bulgarians ordered a brand new armored cruiser from french shipyards, on the other ottomans were rebuilding their old ironclad into coastal battleships.
A certain improvement in the economy, small as it was (about 80% of Romanians lived off the land) enable Romania to start a large rearmament program. The naval expansion programme was drawn up in 1899 and called for 6 coastal battleships, 4 destroyers of 300t and 12 torpedo-boats of 130t.
The main units should be able to match their turkish conterparts and theirfore carry at least four 240mm main guns and six 149 mm secondary guns. Handeling six ships of this size (and paying them) proved to be beyond the workforce (and budjet) of the kingdom.
So two options were concidered, keep six reduced units (2x240mm or 4x203mm, and 4x149mm) or reduce to three battleships of the required size. Finally a austro-hungarian design from Stabilimento Tecnico Triestino was selected. It was basically a MONARCH coast defence ship improved with the latest develloppement designed for the contemporary HABSBURG. The three ships were named after dacian kings ( Rubobostes, Burebista and Decebal) and formed the Dacilor class. Of a very compact design they carried two twin 238 mm/40 turret (fore and aft) and eigth 149 mm/40 in casemates for a displacement of 6500 tons.
[ img ]
Ordered in 1900, they were commissionned betwin 1903 and 1905. They proved to be top heavy and tended to be savage roller. In october 1907, during a storm, the Decebal was unable to reach Constanța before capsizing. It required huge efforts to the romanians to refloat it and bring it back to the navy base. During repair, the ship had one superstructure deck removed to save topweight and basic bulges were added to stabilize the vessel. Dispite reduicing top speed, this proved very usefull.
While supporting land troops during the Second Balkan War, Rubobostes and Decebal came under attack from Bulgarian torpedo ships. Each were hitted, the rebuilt ship was abble to remain afloat while her sister ship sank with all hands. Analisis of this event would latter lead Sir Eustace Tennyson d'Eyncourt to devellop the anti-torpedo bulge.
[ img ]
The Burabista was rebuilt in the same way between 1913 and 1915. The two surviving ships were sunk during the battle of Constanța in october 1916. Although considered total losses, the wrecks lied in relatively shallow water, so the bulgarian troops were able to salvage the weapons and installed it in shore batteries. they were still in use during World War II.

The others ships of the 1899 programme were ordered from:
- Cantieri Navali Pattison: 4 Furtună class destroyers (similar to Italian Nembo),
[ img ]
- Gio. Ansaldo & C.: 6 Pasări class torpedo boats (similar to italian Condore),
[ img ]
- Stabilimento Tecnico Triestino: 6 șarpe class torpedo boats (similar to KuK Kaiman).
[ img ]

A word about source and design
This story is based on informations i've found about several romanian naval programs(https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/ ... rogrammes/)
"A certain improvement in the economy, small as it was (about 80% of Romanians lived off the land) enable Romania to start a large rearmament programme at the end of the 1890s. The naval expansion programme was drawn up in 1899 and called for 6 coastal battleships, 4 destroyers of 300t and 12 torpedo-boats of 80t; none of them were built. The Danube Division had to be strengthened by 8 river monitors (4 which were built) and 12 river torpedo-boats (8 were built). These ships came into service between 1906 and 1908, signifying both the importance of Danube security to Romania and Romanian difficulties raising planned programmes. By 1906 personnel numbered about 1500"
"By the time of the 1912 Balkan Wars, the original 1899 naval programme had developed into the 1912 programme, which called for 6 light cruisers of 3500t (none of which were begun), 12 large destroyers of 1500t (4 were built and requisitioned by Italy) and 1 submarine. The Danube Flotilla was supplemented by a staff vessel and two patrol boats. Other plans for naval expansion were even more unrealistic; one of them called for a battleship of 13.000t, armed with 4x 305mm (12in), 4x 203mm (8in) and 12x 150mm (6in)."
"The Financial situation -after the 1929 world recession- was strengthened in 1936 with the establishment of the Romanian Navy Ministry. Up till then the fleet consisted of four destroyers, six torpedo-boats and a submarine depot ship (not counting the obsolete nineteenth century warships). The new Ministry took the opportunity to build up the Navy on more reasonable lines. The programme of 1937 called for a cruiser, four small destroyers, three submarines, two minelayers and two MTBs, plus auxiliaries. This programme was only partially realised, since only one minelayer and two submarines were completed by Romanian yards, while three MTBs and two auxiliaries were purchased abroad."
Text are supposed to be from "Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships 1906-1921 and 1922-1946".
Since i've found these sources the autor have drawed the two 1937 cruisers, witch i did a few years ago, but didn't dare to upload them. They are still in the pipes but need a serious update (they are scheduled for this AU).

The autor claim that the 13.000 ton coastal battleship should had been similar to the Austro-Hungarian Radeztky class Battleships. But i think he is mistaking cause this data comply almost exactly with the Russian contemporary Yevstafiy Class. So i think they would have been design to match this design, and similar, althought not built and designed in Russia.But the Austro-Hungarian track appered to be a good one.

At first i considered the Dutch pantserschepen as a reference to the dutch helmet romanian troop would latter use in World War II. But i've discovered (that certainly was a great lack in my historical knowledge) that Romania has a very similar history to Italy in the Great War.
It was unaturrally part of the Triple Alliance, as they had territorial disputes with the twin monarchy (exactly as Italy) but didn't side with the centrals powers claiming that "the Triple Alliance was a defensive alliance, but Germany and Austria-Hungary had taken the offensive" (same has italy) and finally joined the allies in 1916 (this at least i knew).

So i decided that the ships ordered before should be from their allies.
Austro-Hungarian Monarch was matching perfectly what kind of "pocket pre-dreadnaught" i intended for romanian navy but was a bit to old. To modernise it, the drawing is based on Gollevainen Habsburg reduced to the size of a Monarch. This gave a quite tall ship and inspired the hystory of the class.

The destroyer was made from scratch, exept for the weapons who were garlicdesign sourced (Just this once won't hurt....).As i didn't found satisfing source of contamporary 80 tons torpedo boat i mouved to 130 ton ones. They were split in two groups, the austro-hungarian one based on Pombocz Kaiman and the italian one based on my own ottoman hamidiye as Condore was a similar ansaldo design.

_________________
"You can rape history, if you give her a child"
Alexandre Dumas

JE SUIS CHARLIE


Last edited by waritem on October 19th, 2020, 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
[Profile] [Quote]
matedow
Post subject: Re: Cretan AU: Romanian navyPosted: November 25th, 2017, 1:22 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 32
Joined: October 23rd, 2017, 11:38 am
Nice work. I especially like the bridgework on the Dacilor.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Cretan AU: Romanian navyPosted: November 25th, 2017, 9:46 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 4685
Joined: July 27th, 2010, 5:10 am
Location: Finland
Contact: Website
Great reworks of those old Monarchs and an interesting AU concept all together

_________________
Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Hood
Post subject: Re: Cretan AU: Romanian navyPosted: November 25th, 2017, 10:23 am
Offline
Posts: 7150
Joined: July 31st, 2010, 10:07 am
These are all excellent additions to your AU and the backstory is good and well researched as well. Nice work.

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
eswube
Post subject: Re: Cretan AU: Romanian navyPosted: November 25th, 2017, 1:21 pm
Offline
Posts: 10635
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 8:31 am
Nice series.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
DG_Alpha
Post subject: Re: Cretan AU: Romanian navyPosted: November 25th, 2017, 2:10 pm
Offline
Posts: 762
Joined: January 1st, 2012, 7:01 pm
Location: Germany
I like those lesser known building programs of smaller navies. It's nice to see them visuallized, even with a personal spin on it. Great work!

_________________
My worklist
Any help and source material is always welcome.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
citizen lambda
Post subject: Re: Cretan AU: Romanian navyPosted: November 25th, 2017, 2:59 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 467
Joined: March 2nd, 2016, 8:30 pm
That's some nice designs you've got going there.
Looks like you really went all out on the research too!

_________________
Soviet Century/Cold War 2020 Alternate Universe: Soviet and other Cold War designs 1990-2020.
My Worklist


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 1 of 1  [ 7 posts ]  Return to “Alternate Universe Designs”

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]