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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: March 19th, 2018, 1:35 pm
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The colossal diagonal air inlet is very curious. Do you have any idea why the original artist chose such a configuration?


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: March 19th, 2018, 1:58 pm
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The Moskva's had a large sloping vent on the port side of the superstructure which probably inspired this larger version. It was a pain to draw but certainly is distinctive.

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: March 19th, 2018, 2:46 pm
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Huh, so they did. It's possible I've only ever seen the starboard side of those fugly creatures!


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: June 8th, 2019, 2:29 pm
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Kreml (Kremlin), Project 1143.7, NATO 'Kreml' Class, 1989


The first of two Pr.1143.7 aviation cruisers were laid down in 1982 at South Yard, Nikolayev. Designed to support Soviet ASW groups and offer power projection across the world, these ships offered far superior capabilities with powerful missile armament backed up by an effective air group and a contingent of Marines. Only the Kreml was completed, commissioning in 1989 shortly before the collapse of the USSR. On commissioning the Kreml was assigned to the Northern Fleet.
Displacement: 75,000 tons
Dimensions: 335m (long, overall), 90m (beam, including flightdeck), 40m (beam, hull)
Armament: 20x VLS tubes for SS-N-19 'Shipwreck' supersonic anti-ship missiles, 1x2 SS-N-14 'Silex' ASW missile launcher (plus reload missiles), 12 SA-N-6 'Grumble' SAM launchers, 2x2 76mm gun mounts, 9x 30mm AK-630 CIWS mounts, 2x5 533mm torpedo tubes for torpedoes and SS-N-15 'Starfish' ASW missiles, 1x RBU-6000 ASW rocket launcher
Airgroup: 70x navalised Su-27 'Flanker' fighters (and including navalised Sukhoi Su-25 'Frogfoot' attack aircraft) plus Ka-27 'Helix' helicopters
Machinery: 2 nuclear reactors supplying steam to 4 turbines, 250,000shp
Speed: 30-32kts
Complement: 5,000 plus a Marine infantry contingent of 1,500

Real World: By early 1984 rumours began to circulate about a successor to the Kiev class and in August 1984 satellite reconnaissance revealed the hull of the Project 1143.5 Riga, which would later be better known as Tbilisi and later still completed as the Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Kuznetsov. The bow section was incomplete and so speculation continued in the West as to what the new carrier would look like. Would it be a conventional carrier or a heavily armed cruiser-carrier built for power projection. Speculation favoured the heavily armed solution, indeed as completed the Kuznetsov had a powerful battery of 12 SS-N-19 anti-ship missiles, but the Western speculations were far more powerful. The design shown here, dubbed the i]Kreml[/i], was presented in Strategy and Defence in October 1984. The design had two steam catapults on the angled deck for 70 navalised 'Flankers' and a powerful missile battery modelled on that of the Project 1144 Kirov class. Oddly only long-range SAMs were presented despite the large Su-27 airgroup (which could probably never been fitted into such a hull). Being sketched in 1984 the design lacks a phased-array radar, so has a dated radar outfit compared to the Pr.1143.4 Baku which completed in 1988.
The West saw the Soviet carrier fleet as being a key part of global projection, so much so that, like this design, they assumed they would carry Soviet Marines and by the late 1980s rumours (perhaps started by the existence of the Su-25UTG deck trainers) circulated that the carriers would carry Su-25 'Frogfoot' ground attack aircraft. Therefore I have included a modified Su-25 based on the Su-25TM/Su-39 airframe with the raised cockpit. What we have here is an interesting semi-accurate glimpse of the reality but incorrect in many ways and perhaps far too ambitious to be workable.

Drawing Note: I first drew this ship probably 10-12 years ago and although this started as a modernisation it ended up a 100% redraw. Golly's Kiev parts were invaluable in completing this. The original drawing had some rather funky deck heights and layouts and odd angles. I've done my best to interpret them and rejig them into accurate forms that could be workable, but it is rather a complicated island compared to the real ships. I have redrawn the previous Su-33K from scratch and it is now far more accurate and I have kitbashed a naval Su-25.

EDIT: made some fixes on the drawing.

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Last edited by Hood on June 13th, 2019, 9:30 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: June 8th, 2019, 3:27 pm
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Really cool work, and curious missile ordannance. Makes me want see the top virw how its all arranged. Also by this time, the ak-100 should be the main battery

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Bordkanone 75
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: June 8th, 2019, 3:35 pm
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Very, very impressive!

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RaspingLeech
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: June 8th, 2019, 4:04 pm
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Amazing successor to an amazing design. Excellent work :D

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Rhade
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: June 10th, 2019, 10:43 am
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Amazing!

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: June 11th, 2019, 3:27 pm
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Tbilisi, Project 1143.5, NATO 'Black-Com-2' Class, 1988

The first of two Pr.1143.5 aviation cruisers were laid down in 1982 at South Yard, Nikolayev. Designed to support Soviet ASW groups as an improved Project 1143 Kiev class design with three deck-edge lifts and two steam-catapults. The Tbilisi completed in 1988 and was assigned as the flagship of the Black Sea fleet and was followed in 1989 by the Riga which was assigned to the Pacific Fleet just as the Communist regime fell in 1990.

Displacement: 60,000 tons
Dimensions: 272m(long, overall), 80m (beam, including flightdeck)
Armament: 16x VLS tubes for SS-N-19 'Shipwreck' supersonic anti-ship missiles, 24x SA-N-6 'Grumble' SAM launchers, 2x2 SA-N-4 'Gecko' SAM launchers, 2x1 100mm AK-100 gun mounts, 8x 30mm AK-630 CIWS mounts, 2x RBU-6000 ASW rocket launchers
Airgroup: navalised Su-27 'Flanker' fighters and Ka-27 'Helix' helicopters
Machinery: 250,000shp steam turbines
Speed: 30-32kts
Complement: 5,000

Real World: By early 1984 rumours began to circulate about a successor to the Kiev class and in August 1984 satellite reconnaissance revealed the hull of the Project 1143.5 Riga, which would later be better known as Tbilisi and later still completed as the Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Kuznetsov. The bow section was incomplete and so speculation continued in the West as to what the new carrier would look like. Would it be a conventional carrier or a heavily armed cruiser-carrier built for power projection. Speculation favoured the heavily armed solution. The design shown here was based on an unattributed Japanese study and illustrated an article by Siegfried Breyer in Naval Forces, predating the 'Kreml' design I posted earlier by a few months. This design has the same Kirov-esque heavy missile battery but slightly toned down and actually seems to emphasise anti-air rather than anti-submarine capabilities.

Drawing Notes: no dimensions for this design were given but from scaling the drawing it was clear that the the hull was based on that of the Kiev in size rather than being a 'supercarrier'. Being drawn in 1982 the design is very much a warmed-up Kiev. The deck-edge lift forming the end of the angled deck (actually more of a laterally displaced axial deck) is an odd feature but otherwise the design seems actually seems more well thought out than the 'Kreml' which appeared a few months later.

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Last edited by Hood on June 13th, 2019, 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Keisser
Post subject: Re: Soviet Alternative CarriersPosted: June 11th, 2019, 3:44 pm
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"Kreml" is spelled incorrectly in Russian, has to be "Кремль" instead of "Кремн"

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