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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 19th, 2018, 11:37 pm
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I think, for this machinery layout, 35kshp per shaft is reasonable ;)


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MihoshiK
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 20th, 2018, 6:29 am
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Personally I'd ditch the MK11 GMLS, and place the MK10 there. It will give you more space to work with in regards to the magazine. Where it's located now it might interfere with your shafts.
Also get two SPQ-5 at the very least, otherwise you will be lacking in guidance channels.

This will allow you to expand both the flight deck and the hangar, for more helicopters.

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 20th, 2018, 12:35 pm
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County Class DD/DDG

Preliminary designs to Production model 1948 to 1960

With the Daring class in production, the next generation of 'Destroyer' designs were to be promulgated. While classed as destroyers, the Daring class had been listed solely as "Daring's" as they were approaching cruiser size. The next County class, in its designs, were bigger than the preceding Dido class cruisers, but much more capable and still listed as destroyers.

The first 1948 design showed that the ships would be a typical Gun ship with steam based machinery. Mk.3 4.5" turrets were fitted, with Mk.5 40mm twin mountings. During the preceding three years the British had been reverse engineering and making improvements to the Japanese 24" Long Lance torpedoes and looked to mount the result on its 1948 design. (In this AU) The first 24" mountings went aboard the later Daring's and proved excellent in service.

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While the County class design team were updating and upgrading their drawings, so much designing and trialling of new equipment was going on in the background. The captured German rocketry/missile work was proving more than useful as Britain went through many different models and phases of designs to get missiles to sea. The 1955 design still had guns as the main armament, but they were now the same Mk.5 models as mounted on the Daring's, with 40mm as light AA armament. Limbo had replaced Squid at the stern and the first rocket assisted anti-submarine torpedo was put into the design.

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The next five years, a lot of the trials had come to fruition and many more new parts and armaments were placed aboard the 1960 design. A complete refreshment of the design showed only two 4.5" mountings forward. The aft mountings have been replaced with a landing pad and hangar for helicopters. But the major changes are the first missile armaments in the Sea Slug and Sea Cat, long range and short range Anti-aircraft use. The machinery also has a major change with a combined Steam and Gas installation requiring new funnels. Gone are the lattice masts and older radar installations being replaced with new search and targeting radar allied to the new missile armament.

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Displacement: 1948 - 6,500 tons, 1955 - 6,800 tons, 1960 - 7,000 tons
Dimensions: 520 x 60 x 21 feet
Machinery:
1948 & 1955, 2 shaft, Geared Steam Turbines, 65,000shp.
1960 - Cosag - 2× Babcock & Wilcox boilers, geared steam turbines, 40,000shp, 4× Metrovick G6 gas turbines, 30,000shp
Speed: all designs - 30 knots
Endurance: 3,500 miles at 18 knots
Armour: nil
Armament:
1948 - 8 x 4.5", 10 x 40mm, 2 x Squid ASW mortars.
1955 - 8 x 4.5", 10 x 40mm, 2 x Limbo ASW mortars
1960 - 4 x 4.5", 4 x 40mm, 1 × Aft-mounted Seaslug GWS.1 or GWS.2 SAM (24 missiles), 2× mountings (port & starboard) for Seacat GWS-22 SAM
Torpedoes:
1948 - 6 x 24" (2x3)
1955/60 - 6 x 24" (2x3) ASW homing
Aircraft: 1960+ 1 or 2 helicopters
Crew: 1948 - 450, 1955 - 460, 1960 - 475


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 20th, 2018, 1:43 pm
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The unlikelyness of the hull not changing trough these iterations is quite high :P Limbo is a lot heavier then Squid, the missiles take a lot more volume and less weight then the guns originally there, the COSAG powerplant will have far more volume then the original steam plant (while the internal volume is less because of stabilisers intruding into the engine rooms) and the radars are quite a bit heavier then what was originally there. The magazine for the Sea Slug defined a lot of the hull shape of the IRL County class, again making it less likely they got that hull correct in 1948.

That aside, the fire control director also has deck penetration, so the county had an hangar arrangement where the helicopter rolled over the deck next to the director and then sideways into the hangar, IIRC. I don't see anything like that done here, right?

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thegrumpykestrel
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 21st, 2018, 3:42 pm
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Thought I'd give this one a crack, especially considering as it aligns with something I had planned for my AU anyway. There's probably a few things wrong here and there, but I tried to restrain myself from anything too ambitious a-la Esperance class (if anyone remembers the problems I had with that! :lol: )

Kalgoorlie Class Destroyer

Realising that the Atlanta-class cruiser Westralia and a number of destroyers would eventually have to be replaced following the Second World War, the Royal Westralian Navy launched a number of design studies into potential replacements. Designs ranged from large cruisers to small, specialised frigates, intended to cover the full gamut of RWN capabilities with a variety of differing ships. However, with the draw-down in size of the RWN and post-war economic conditions, it was soon realised that a single design would have to be selected, consolidating all the desired capabilities into one. Studies concluded that two large destroyers, similar in size to the destroyer leaders emerging from the US, should be procured to replace both Westralia and the remaining four home-built Fletcher-class destroyers (called the Perth class in RWN service) Perth, Kalgoorlie, Broome, and Esperance. The resultant design was nearly 150m long, armed with four of the new design Mk42 5-inch guns, estimated to displace in the range of 4000-5000 tons, and was predicted to make 30+ knots with 80 000+ shp. An interesting design element was the funnels, trunked up through the masts to form two macks, somewhat like an enlarged version of the arrangement found on the forward mast of the British Daring class destroyers. It was named the Kalgoorlie class in 1952.

Construction began in 1953, though progressed slowly owing to numerous redesigns. A number of small matters dragged on, including issues regarding the mounting of 3-inch twin guns amidships, which was ultimately resolved by abandoning them altogether in favour of the less capable but lighter, smaller and more affordable Mark V Bofors twin mount. Mk 15 torpedo tubes were recycled from Westralia as a stopgap measure after it couldn't be decided what type, size or country of origin of torpedo to intitially use; and the number of 5-inch guns continually varied between 2, 3 and 4 until the Government intervened and froze the design at 4 guns in 1956. Cost climbed considerably in the period. It was not until 1958 that Kalgoorlie touched water, finally being commissioned on 15 November 1959. Perth followed her into service little over a year-and-a-half later, in 1961. Both were assigned the pennant number of their forebears, meaning that Perth numerically came before Kalgoorlie despite entering service later.

Length: 148m
Beam: 15.45m
Draught: 5.4m
Displacement: 3920 tons standard, 5130 tons deep load
Propulsion: 2 geared steam turbines providing 80 000shp, 4 1200psi boilers
Speed: 32+ kts, (claimed to have reached 35 kts in trials)
Range: 4800nmi at 20kts
Complement: 347

Armament: 4 x Mk42 127mm, 4 x Bofors Mark V Twin Mount 40mm, 21-inch Mk15 Torpedo Tubes, Hedgehog
Sensors and Systems: SPS-6, SPS-10, SQS-4, SPG-53


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The slow build progress had meant that not only had Westralia and the destroyers aged considerably, but the Kalgoorlie's were effectively obsolescent at the entry of service, with the missile age having begun in the late-1950's. Despite this, the new destroyers were still considered amongst the most powerful in the region, being larger, faster, longer ranging and more heavily armed than the Darings recently introduced into service by Australia. However, it was still decided to convert the class into Guided Missile Destroyers, and Kalgoorlie entered refit in 1965, re-emerging in 1967 with the aft two 5-inch turrets replaced by a Mk13 Tartar launcher and two Ikara launchers and a shared magazine mounted amidships. The replacement of the aft turrets with Mk13 allowed the provision of a deck for operating helicopters, making the destroyers the first ships in the RWN capable of doing so. The Ikara magazine presented a particular issue, with there not being enough space to fit a full deckhouse for the magazine and loading rails for both launchers. A clever, if complicated and occasionally unreliable solution was found in a rotating loading rail, that allowed both launchers to be serviced by the same elevator raising missiles from the magazine a deck below. Perth was refit between 1968-1970.

Armament: 2 x Mk42, 2 x Bofors, 2 x Oerlikon twin 20mm, 1 x Mk13 GMLS, 2 x Ikara, 2 x Mk32 SVTT
Systems: SPS-40, SPS-52, SQS-23, SPG-51 x 2

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Following the Westralian commitment to apply pressure to Soviet interests in the Indian, to ease tensions with the US following Westralia's refusal join the Vietnam conflict and subsequent protests against it, the destroyers saw hard use sortieing against Soviet ships in the Indian Ocean and occasionally Southern Ocean. These operations highlighted the deficiencies in habitability, especially in the area of air-conditioning. It was thus decided to focus the next refit on improving on these issues. Beginning in 1978, a new, completely enclosed bridge was constructed, and the 1950's era air-conditioning was replaced with more modern units. New galleys were installed, and attempts were made to reduce the manpower required and open up some space for improved accommodation, though this was less successful than the other measures. The propulsion system was upgraded to run on diesel fuel instead of furnace oil. In addition, electronics were upgraded, most notably shifting towards solid-state architecture. Furthermore, an SPS-55 set was added for navigation. In regard to armament SM-1 was integrated into the Mk74 FCS. Both refits were completed by the end of 1981.

Armament: SM-1
Systems: SPS-40C, SPS-52C SPS-67, SPS-55

[ img ]

In 1982, both Kalgoorlie and Perth were sent to the Falklands as a part of the British Task Force, along with the frigate Esperance and fleet replenishment tanker Swan River. The contingent acquitted itself well in the conflict, with the two destroyers performing remarkably effective shore bombardment missions and claiming 4 Argentinian aircraft shot down with more damaged. Despite this, there were several close calls, with bombs straddling Perth in one incident and one penetrating Swan River, though it failed to explode. Like many navies, both involved or otherwise, the RWN learnt numerous lessons from the conflict, such as the need for an effective CIWS system to protect vessels and the power of sea-skimming missiles. These lessons were incorporated in another refit, this time in 1986, with two Phalanx CIWS being installed in place of the remaining Bofors, and Harpoon being integrated into the Mk 13 launcher. Ikara was deleted and the magazine converted into extra accommodation. Communications improvements were also included. This was to be the final guise of the class, being retired in 1993 following the end of the Cold War, though not before Kalgoorlie participated in a single night of shore bombardment in the 1991 Gulf War. Kalgoorlie was ultimately sunk as a dive wreck in 2000, but Perth was selected to be a museum ship, becoming the centrepiece of the National Museum of Naval History.

Armament: Harpoon, Phalanx 20mm CIWS, GAM-B01 20mm

[ img ]


Last edited by thegrumpykestrel on August 27th, 2018, 2:23 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 21st, 2018, 5:24 pm
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A very beautiful ship and full of action! Well done!


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 21st, 2018, 6:19 pm
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Wow.

Everybody is turning in some fabulous works in this challenge.

I'd note that the right-hand local control dome (for AA fire) on the Mk 42 was generally removed in service, as it was deemed impractical for use.


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adenandy
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 22nd, 2018, 5:59 am
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This challenge has thrown up some beautiful designs and back stories.

Truly impressive work. All round.

Jolly well done everybody involved. :D

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Rhade
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 22nd, 2018, 8:12 am
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Oh my, that Kalgoorlie looks absolutely amazing.

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MihoshiK
Post subject: Re: Early Cold War Destroyer challengePosted: August 22nd, 2018, 10:59 am
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thegrumpykestrel wrote: *
Thought I'd give this one a crack, especially considering as it aligns with something I had planned for my AU anyway. There's probably a few things wrong here and there, but I tried to restrain myself from anything too ambitious a-la Esperance class (if anyone remembers the problems I had with that! :lol: )

Kalgoorlie Class Destroyer
If anything during their last refit I'd expect them to just stuff a pair of quad harpoon launchers on top of the deck where the Ikara installation used to be. Removing all the Ikara equipment would give you plenty of weight reserves for that.

Apart from that bit of critisism, an exceedingly nice design.

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