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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: November 4th, 2012, 11:12 pm
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I think a solid argument could be made to ditch the mainmast SPS-30 entirely, and perhaps elevate the bridge SPS-30 slightly. This would massively improve the SPS-72 arc and probably somewhat reduce topweight. SPS-72 should have more than enough range to directly serve early Terrier (where it was badly insufficient was on Talos cruisers).


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: November 6th, 2012, 4:54 pm
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Well done, can't wait to see more!


Last edited by odysseus1980 on March 8th, 2017, 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: March 7th, 2017, 8:28 pm
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Revisited the Missoula-class Terrier-armed CG:s and cleaned her up, adding the same hull as the other Baltimores that I've worked on lately - plus renamed her the USS Bremerton (ex-CA-130) to acquire a more realistic feel.

Anyway, no biggie, just wanted to finish this one off too:

[ img ]

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: March 7th, 2017, 8:37 pm
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Truly Awesome

I do get that feeling, that I get from most ship build/modified in that era... "top weight is the king"


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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: March 7th, 2017, 9:49 pm
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Takk så meget, kære Henrik! Det var rart av deg!

As I've mentioned somewhere in this thread, not so much factual topweight, since the Baltimores were built with a rather healthy margin of displacement, and, mind you, a lot of WW2 fighting gear has been removed, including three heavy and armored gun turrets with their magazine spaces, handling- and shell rooms etc; not to mention directors and integrated, armored conning towers. A lot of weight saving, which bolting on three Terrier launchers with their magazines and ready rooms, as well as directors will not compensate for. Also, much of the new, enlarged superstructure, including the Terrier magazines and ready rooms would be, at least partially, constructed of Aluminum (Aluminium). A lot of internal armor has been removed or replaced by thinner streaks etc, etc...

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: March 7th, 2017, 10:09 pm
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well, speaking of topweight......
did the ships have a lot of stability reserve? because margin of displacement says exactly nothing about the ships stability.
removing the turrets, the magazine, the conning tower....... the issue might actually not be to be the ship stable, but to have her lay as she should do, without the weight in the places it was designed to have it.

I have not researched or looked at this ship to say if she would work or not, but the new directors will be quite a bit heavier then the ones already there. the removal of the magazines in the hull brings the topweight up as well, but here the displacement margins can come in useful: you can ballast to compensate. the radars, high up in the mast, have a lot of effect because they are high up. so, your center of gravity might well go up :P however, looking at the albany class, which IIRC was build on a hull related to these, I think it might work.

I am not entirely certain if it is an good idea to surround magazine spaces of the Mk 10 GMLS with aluminium btw, there are some drawbacks on that.

last but not least, I think you would loose very little weight in armour, as the armour was quite integrated in the ships design as far as I know, so removing armour would have structural effects as well.

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KHT
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: March 7th, 2017, 10:45 pm
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Can't comment on the design or functionability, but heck if she doesn't look particularly cool!


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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: March 8th, 2017, 1:01 pm
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Jan, your comment is valid and fair enough! The Baltimores, built largely as a war-time expediency, based on the Wichita but greatly expanded,due to the lapse of any international treaty limits, and with a fair degree of war-time experience already accumulated, both own and British, did have a generous amount of reserve buoyancy/stability built into them, enabling them post-war to be considered for such radical rebuilding projects such as the Albany-class.
These latter did have a certain amount (don't recall the actual number!) of additional ballast added for stability's sake, and, in all likelihood so did the Boston and Canberra, and, in the prolongation, so would the Fall River and Bremerton too, although the exact character of that ballast I'm not informed about. It could've been cement or iron tacks. So, yes, I agree with you, one question any designer attempting such a reconstruction from one configuration to another (i.e. from an all-gun vessel to, in this case, all-missile ship) would have to resolve is where the new acceptable LWL and/or CWL would be determined.

As for the aluminum (alloy), your remark is technically spot-on, but you do fail to take into consideration the fact that that metal in the 1950s was still a fairly new metallurgical device, and thus poorly understood, with regards to such critical issues as critical melting pot temperature, fatigue resistance, corrosion, interaction with other metals etc. Most likely, a new magazine would have been by and large been built by steel (STS), but certain parts of it would still feature alloy for weight saving and other reasons.
As for the armor, I never really mentioned that large portions would've been removed, but rather redistributed, and, in some instances, probably thinned to meet new standards.

I hope this addresses some of your queries, thank you for your insightful comment!

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: March 8th, 2017, 2:29 pm
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Quite aside from any technical considerations, this is a remarkably more attractive than the original version, and it is a nice case study in how far Shipbucket techniques and standards have advanced. Look at the Tartar magazine overhang compared to the Albany posted to the main Shipbucket archive.

[sigh, I really must finish my Albany someday]


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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: Missoula-Class CG:sPosted: March 8th, 2017, 6:33 pm
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erik: would you be terribly upset, if I asked you permission to complete it? I've in mind doing all three vessels then.

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