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the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
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Author:  Armoured man [ September 30th, 2017, 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
it's almost done just a few more things to do
[ img ]
Author:  Armoured man [ September 30th, 2017, 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
here's what i got using SpringSharp.
Displacement:
33,544 t light; 35,779 t standard; 37,488 t normal; 38,855 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
723.06 ft / 710.00 ft x 105.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
220.39 m / 216.41 m x 32.00 m x 9.75 m

Armament:
8 - 16.14" / 410 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,102.91lbs / 953.86kg shells, 1950 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 107.15lbs / 48.60kg shells, 1950 Model
Breech loading guns in deck mounts
on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,680 lbs / 8,020 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
210.00 ft / 64.01 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Main Belt covers 87 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.00" / 102 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 28.00 ft / 8.53 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 5.00" / 127 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm - -

- Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 20.00" / 508 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 2 shafts, 72,155 shp / 53,828 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,077 tons

Complement:
1,346 - 1,751

Cost:
£25.582 million / $102.329 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,210 tons, 5.9 %
Armour: 8,834 tons, 23.6 %
- Belts: 2,795 tons, 7.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,658 tons, 4.4 %
- Armament: 1,011 tons, 2.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,888 tons, 7.7 %
- Conning Tower: 483 tons, 1.3 %
Machinery: 1,726 tons, 4.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 20,773 tons, 55.4 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,944 tons, 10.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
68,768 lbs / 31,193 Kg = 32.7 x 16.1 " / 410 mm shells or 12.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
Metacentric height 9.3 ft / 2.8 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 95 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.76 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Mid (67 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 23.09 ft / 7.04 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.0 %
Waterplane Area: 52,028 Square feet or 4,834 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 283 lbs/sq ft or 1,382 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.75
- Longitudinal: 2.80
- Overall: 1.83
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Author:  Keisser [ October 1st, 2017, 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
Armoured man wrote: *September 30th, 2017, 8:45 pm
- Overall: 1.83
Should be 1.0 for battleships and cruisers and 0.5 for other ships. Reduce block coefficient or size.
Author:  Garlicdesign [ October 2nd, 2017, 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
Hi armoured man!

1. Never fully trust Springsharp.
2. Despite what I said above, the very high value for overall hull strength has some reasons which have nothing to do with the ship, but with errors entering data into Springsharp:
a) Check date when the ship was laid down; your Springsharp report gives 1950 as construction date of the main guns, and Springsharp automatically assigns guns and engines a design date which coincides with the year the ship is laid down. In your case, this should be more 1935ish.
b) make sure your armoured belt covers the whole citadel (current: 87%)
c) main artillery barbette armour is currently set at 127mm. Should be at least 356mm for a 1935ish design.
d) deck armour is currently set at 76mm. Should be twice that figure for a treaty battleship.

Once you changed this data, you'll probably see that relative overall hull strength will decrease drastically, probably to a point you'll have to cut range or increase hull size (everyone cheated, after all) to get back to 1,00.

Greetings
GD
Author:  Armoured man [ October 2nd, 2017, 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
i tried what you said and i got a slightly lower Overall number , and she is done ,i don't know what to name her.
[ img ]
Displacement:
33,544 t light; 35,779 t standard; 37,488 t normal; 38,855 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
723.06 ft / 710.00 ft x 105.00 ft x 32.00 ft (normal load)
220.39 m / 216.41 m x 32.00 m x 9.75 m

Armament:
8 - 16.14" / 410 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2,102.91lbs / 953.86kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread
8 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 107.15lbs / 48.60kg shells, 1928 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on side ends, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 17,680 lbs / 8,020 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.0" / 305 mm 475.00 ft / 144.78 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
Ends: 4.00" / 102 mm 100.00 ft / 30.48 m 11.00 ft / 3.35 m
135.00 ft / 41.15 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.00" / 76 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
Main Belt covers 103 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.00" / 102 mm 400.00 ft / 121.92 m 28.00 ft / 8.53 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 12.0" / 305 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 2.00" / 51 mm

- Armour deck: 5.00" / 127 mm, Conning tower: 20.00" / 508 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 72,155 shp / 53,828 Kw = 25.00 kts
Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,077 tons

Complement:
1,346 - 1,751

Cost:
£25.582 million / $102.329 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,210 tons, 5.9 %
Armour: 13,285 tons, 35.4 %
- Belts: 3,132 tons, 8.4 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,658 tons, 4.4 %
- Armament: 3,200 tons, 8.5 %
- Armour Deck: 4,813 tons, 12.8 %
- Conning Tower: 483 tons, 1.3 %
Machinery: 1,726 tons, 4.6 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 16,322 tons, 43.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,944 tons, 10.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
60,966 lbs / 27,654 Kg = 29.0 x 16.1 " / 410 mm shells or 11.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
Metacentric height 6.2 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 17.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 85 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.82
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0.550
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.76 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.65 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 55
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Forecastle (21 %): 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Mid (67 %): 24.00 ft / 7.32 m (16.00 ft / 4.88 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (16 %): 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Stern: 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
- Average freeboard: 23.09 ft / 7.04 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 171.0 %
Waterplane Area: 52,028 Square feet or 4,834 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 222 lbs/sq ft or 1,086 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.06
- Longitudinal: 1.81
- Overall: 1.12
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Author:  Keisser [ October 2nd, 2017, 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
The mighty Tajima-class, consisting of KNS Tajima and KNS Iwami ;)
Author:  Armoured man [ October 2nd, 2017, 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
thanks a lot Keisser for the names, the Tajima-class is finally done.
[ img ]
Author:  Keisser [ October 2nd, 2017, 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
I like the design ;)
I would recommend you to focus on some details to make drawing look even more attractive, but this usually comes with experience so good luck, proceed and continue to draw!
And btw, your Overall strength is 1.12, that means that your ship has some spare displacement. There is a slider in "Hull" window of SpringSharp, that allows you to change block coefficient. Move it left a bit until your Overall is precisely 1.00.
Author:  Krakatoa [ October 2nd, 2017, 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
Have a look at your B-16" turret, there is a door and a stray grey pixel line hanging around it, and the back of the bridge.

A Treaty battleship will have AA guns, a battery of 4.7"/5" like the Japanese heavy cruisers of the period, and quite possibly some 13mm AA mg's.

One thing that has always struck me is the size of the twin 16.1" turrets, to me they look huge. I had a look at the other Japanese BB's but the nearest 16.1" in time is the ones from the 8x8 fleet ships of the 20's. The next 16.1" were quads of some of the early 30's designs BB1987 did.

The reason I am querying the size is the extra weight of that size of turret. Turrets are a completely armoured box, and the bigger they are the more they will weigh, and I mean much more. Compared to the size of a Tosa twin turret, the Kantai ones look twice as big in volume and therefore twice as much in weight. Do they need to be that big?

[ img ]
Author:  Armoured man [ October 2nd, 2017, 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the Kantai navys Treaty battleships.
is this any better i redo Tajima next.
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