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Fast battleship challenge! (Ended)
http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8477		 Page 1 of 16
Author:  Deskjetser [ May 5th, 2018, 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Fast battleship challenge! (Ended)
Winner is BB1987!
Scores as follow;
[ img ]

Fast BB challenge!

This has gotten a lot of people exited on the discord, I hope it will generate some nice interest here also! The challenge will run for no less than 30 days, be sure to study the rules, and good luck!

Design a ship that meets the following requirements;
  • Must reasonably meet the definition of a battleship or battlecruiser (i.e. BB caliber weaponry)
  • Must be capable of no less than 28 knots (Trials speed counts)
  • Date of design must be no later than the end of 1945 (Tech whether from an AU or not must reflect your design date)
  • Date of design must be no sooner than the start of 1920 (Tech whether from an AU or not must reflect your design date)

Ships of the appropriate nation must follow the treaties of the era;
  • Ships of American origin
  • Ships of British origin
  • Ships of French origin
  • Ships of Italian origin
  • Ships of Japanese origin
  • Ships of German origin
    Of the previous the following restrictions apply to the following ships;
    http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-089.php
    All treaties end effectively 1st September 1939

    The following exceptions apply to the following;
    • Ships of German origin:
      • Design date no earlier than 1928
    • Ships of Japanese origin:
      • Exempt from all restrictions from 29th December 1934 onwards
    • Ships of Italian origin:
      • Exempt from displacement restrictions from 26th March 1937 onwards
    • Ships of all other national origin:
      • Exempt from all restrictions

    Displacement is counted at standard displacement!

    Your submission must be a brand new drawing and will judged on the following categories; (Still subject to change)
    • Combat capability:
      • Surface defence
      • Surface offence
      • Air defence
      • Manueverability
      • Equipment
    • Feasibility:
      • Technologically feasible (Time period correct tech)
      • Economically feasible (Cost and time to produce)
      • Infrastructure feasibility (Docks and slipways)
      • Structurally feasible (Weight for hull ect.)
    • Drawing quality:
      • SB Style guidelines
      • Artistic flare
      • General feel
      • Originality

    One entry per person!

    A SpringSharp report is not required! However, the following stats are required, please lay them out in a block separate from any text paragraphs for easy reading; (Still subject to change)
    • Displacement
    • Dimensions
    • Armour
    • Armament
    • Speed
    • Equipment (Radars, planes, ect.)

    If you're unfamiliar with SS and would like to submit a report, then you can watch my tutorial below.
    http://shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8470
Author:  Shigure [ May 5th, 2018, 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fast battleship challenge!
WOOO! Another one!

Time to get started on another ship! Because screw studying for tests and all that :D
Author:  JSB [ May 5th, 2018, 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fast battleship challenge!
Deskjetser wrote: *May 5th, 2018, 8:01 pm
  • Combat capability:
    • Surface defence
    • Surface offence
    • Air defence
    • Manueverability
    • Equipment
    One entry per person!
A question is the combat capability graded by year LD and cost? Otherwise its simply a case that you have to pick the last date possible to get the most out?
Quote:
Of the previous the following restrictions apply to the following ships;

Ships designed between 17th August 1923 and 25th March 1937:
No more than 35,000 long tons displacement
No greater than 14" gun cailber
Ships designed between 26th March 1937 and 30th March 1938:
No more than 35,000 long tons displacement
No greater than 16" gun cailber
Ships designed between 31st March 1938 and 31st August 1939:
No more than 45,000 long tons displacement
No greater than 16" gun cailber
Why? is this not historically wrong?

ie it should be 23-37 WNT 16" (actually no ships apart from a few named ones ie N&R due to extended building holiday) then 2LNT 14" to the laps to 16" but that's at the same time as 45,000t?
Shigure wrote: *May 5th, 2018, 8:14 pm
Time to get started on another ship! Because screw studying for tests and all that :D
Well mine finish on 15th so hope this carries on till a bit after then!
Author:  Deskjetser [ May 5th, 2018, 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fast battleship challenge!
JSB wrote: *May 5th, 2018, 8:50 pm
A question is the combat capability graded by year LD and cost? Otherwise its simply a case that you have to pick the last date possible to get the most out?
Yes, judging is against comparable ships of the same era as your submission.
Author:  Deskjetser [ May 5th, 2018, 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fast battleship challenge!
JSB wrote: *May 5th, 2018, 8:50 pm
Why? is this not historically wrong?

ie it should be 23-37 WNT 16" (actually no ships apart from a few named ones ie N&R due to extended building holiday) then 2LNT 14" to the laps to 16" but that's at the same time as 45,000t?
Nelrods were exceptions; AFAIK original WNT was 14" guns. Escalation clause moved that to 16", then finally when Italy? refused to sign the displacement was upped by agreement to 45kt.

AFAIK :P
Author:  Deskjetser [ May 5th, 2018, 9:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fast battleship challenge!
Direct quote from wiki on 2LNT; (Heretical I know :P)
Quote:
However, a so-called "escalator clause" was included at the urging of American negotiators in case any of the countries that had signed the Washington Naval Treaty refused to adhere to this new limit. This provision allowed the signatory countries of the Second London Treaty—France, the United Kingdom and the United States—to raise the limit from 14-inch guns to 16-inch if Japan or Italy still refused to sign after 1 April 1937.
Author:  JSB [ May 5th, 2018, 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fast battleship challenge!
No,

1923 WNT was 16" 35,000t (only a few named ships allowed till building list in 30s)

1930 LNT stoped building list but still 16"/35,000t even if no ships actually allowed for main powers RN/USN/IJN (this is why Italy/Fr/Ger started 15" ships)

1 Jan 1937 2LNT 14"/35,000t until escalator clause 16"/45,000t on 1 April 1937
Author:  Deskjetser [ May 5th, 2018, 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fast battleship challenge!
You're correct; This was my fault obviously, though this was given the all clear on the discord first. I'll update in due time.
Author:  JSB [ May 5th, 2018, 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fast battleship challenge!
The problem is then how to get people to pick the limited short 14" window that actually was nearly critical time wise due to the start of WWII?

What about simply making everybody justify why their ship is acceptable with the treaties and the give them a score for it? After all a most German, Italian or Japanese ships (if not Fr/GB and US without good attorneys) could realistically be overweight?
Author:  Charguizard [ May 5th, 2018, 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fast battleship challenge!
The purpose of having rules is to discourage people from designing extreme and unbelievable solutions, and instead focus themselves on making believable and flavourful drawings.
This is not perfect of course and we can all expect min-maxed designs of some sort.
The prospective participant should pick a setting within the allowances and try to flood his drawing with the resulting context, doctrine, budget, etc.
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