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emperor_andreas
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 2nd, 2019, 2:13 am
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heuhen wrote: *
emperor_andreas: cruiser looks like one of those never-build design paper drawings.
It was designed to give a throwback to previous designs (as seen by the funnel) and wartime construction of other types (bridge structure), but it's a completely original design. It's not a never-built.

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Trainspite
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 2nd, 2019, 11:45 pm
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I think it's about time I awaken and post for the first time in the better part of a year.

MMS Chevalier (1947)

After the unsatisfactory trial results and characteristics of the large destroyer leaders that were coming into commission in 1944/1945, supposed to alleviate the relative lack of Light Cruisers in service, the Midtek Marine Board started development of a moderately sized 13,500t light cruiser alongside a less optimistic destroyer leader and 7,500t light cruiser. The designs for the 13,500t light cruiser evolved into Design R12, which be the design adopted for Chevalier. During construction, it was decided to make some alterations to the superstructure and secondary armament, resulting in Design R12B.

Displacement: 11,425t (standard) 13,457t (full)
Length: 178m Waterline, 181.5m overall
Speed: 33.5 knots at 102,000shp
Range: 10,000nm at 16 knots

Armament:
4x 2 152mm/52
5x 1 124mm/46
7x 2 40mm STAAG Mk.II
2x 4 533mm Torpedo tubes
2x 3 305mm Squid ASW

Armour:
146mm Belt
70mm Deck
114mm Turret face (45mm sides, 20mm rear)
45mm Secondary turret face (15mm sides and rear)

[ img ]

Shown here in the two tone green-grey scheme of Treba-nāw (home) fleet, Chevalier had eight 152mm guns in a new design of autoloading turret which allowed for effective dual purpose fire. This was complemented by five of the proven and effective single 124mm 'Octob' DP mounts. On trials in 1949, the ship achieved a speed of 35.6 knots, however this was without several fittings such as the light AA and torpedoes. Although a helicopter landing pad was provided on the stern, the cruiser never had her own helicopter assigned or carried regularly.

Taking the name of a long-scrapped dreadnought, Chevalier, named after the ‘Chevalier sans dirigeant’ of old Midtek Legend, was laid down in 1945, launched in 1947, and commissioned in December 1949. Two more cruisers of the class planned to be laid down in 1946 (proposed names being Barburry, Lyonshall and Shāmel), but these were cancelled in favour of completing the large fast battleship Monarch, which had been launched in 1945 but had work suspended shortly after.

Chevalier joined the East Coast fleet, which was subsequently merged to become the Treba-nāw fleet. She was sent to the Korean theatre in October 1950 as part of a cruiser formation, and was attacked by North Korean aircraft on two occasions, downing five aircraft in total. After numerous shore bombardments, Chevalier returned home to relatively uneventful service in mid-1952.

In 1956 the ship was taken in hand for a refit that would remove the forward four 124mm mounts and replace them with surface to air missile launchers while her electronics were updated. The STAAG 40mm mounts were also replaced at this time. A further refit in 1959/1960 removed B-turret and the final 124mm for similar reasons, as the 152mm mounts were deemed successful enough in the AA role, although they became increasingly obsolescent. The ship remained in active service until 1968 as a carrier escort and flagship, alternating with the last generation of rebuilt Midtek heavy cruisers, but was sent to reserve after this point. Further proposals to remove X & Y-turrets to install a helicopter hangar and revamp her missile outfit were rejected as too expensive for a relatively small ship, and after a brief stint as the primary training ship at Tol-Perost in 1972, Chevalier was decommissioned in 1975 sold for scrap in 1976.


Last edited by Trainspite on March 3rd, 2019, 11:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Shigure
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 3rd, 2019, 8:15 am
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Joined: May 25th, 2016, 2:05 pm
Looks good :D

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manas001
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 3rd, 2019, 8:13 pm
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This is the Best challenge for a long time.


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Shigure
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 3rd, 2019, 10:13 pm
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Aiseus wrote: *
This challenge was personally exhausting and I'm highly disappointed with the result of my work. I really didn't want to finish it but I put enough effort into doing it that I might as well. Enjoy.

Ackermären-class Cruiser
[ img ]
Ackermären as built, 1935.

Following the fall of Hymuth and Aufzenian Navy Scandal of 1945, the Aufzenian Reichsmarine saw its funding slashed as the Aufzenian war effort wound down through demobilization. With the Hymuth Navy effectively posing no more of a threat, and the remainder of the war being fought on the ground versus the landlocked Feoran Empire, the Aufzenian Navy began to scrap many of their older vessels. With little funding to replace these new vessels, the Navy High Command began searching for new ways to replace many of their aging capital ships with the reduced funding they had available. The result was the “Kreuzer,” or “Cruiser,” a revival of an older, defunct term. A smaller ship than a true capital ship, the Kreuzer was designed effectively as an “ersatz capital ship,” in that it could reliably defeat any ship smaller than it while still being fast enough to escape proper capital ships. As designed, it was largely intended to counter the Morsignian Navy, a former ally whose interests had diverged part way through the war, and whose battleships were largely limited to 29-30 knots. Additionally, as its name would suggest, the cruiser was designed to act independently and for long periods of time, mainly as a convoy raider, but also as a kind of ship-in-being that could threaten enemy ships by simply existing, forcing resources to be diverted to contain it. This idea was first put to use in the 1945 design, Targis, and was refined in subsequent classes.

The Ackermären-class was the final class of cruisers built for the Aufzenian Navy, designed in 1946 as the K-15. Initially, three ships of the class were ordered, but the final ship was cancelled before being laid down. The Ackermären, the lead ship, was laid down in March 1948 and completed just before the end of the Great War in April 1950. Her sister, Lannesdorf, was laid down June 1948 and completed several months after the end of the war in October 1950. Neither saw any active combat, but both often hosted foreign dignitaries and saw deployment in far-flung posts, as their long range and imposing size made them ideal for this purpose. Ackermären assisted in the relief efforts of Federia following the 1958 tsunami, while both cruisers were deployed to the Colbion Isles following the Nord-Colbion Crisis in 1964, which was the closest Aufzen came to war with Morsig. By the 1970s, both cruisers were showing their age despite multiple refits, and were scrapped between 1973-1977. Lannesdorf had her bell returned to the city of her namesake in the District of Alvehorn, Trysendria State.

Displacement: 12,842 t light; 13,221 t standard; 14,500 t normal; 15,523 t full load
Length: 187.3 m at waterline, 189.3 m overall
Beam: 17.5 m
Draft: 7.2 m
Speed: 33 knots
Range: 9000 nm @ 15 knots
Armament:
-3x2 255 mm
-2x2 125 mm + 2x1 125 mm
-14x2 37 mm
-4x3 600 mm torpedoes
Armor:
-175 mm main belt, 100 mm upper belt
-50 mm ends
-105 mm armored deck, 45 mm on forecastle and quarterdeck
-175 mm conning tower
-250 mm turret face, 300 mm barbettes

The class carried two floatplanes in a below deck hangar at the stern for reconnaissance.
Honestly, I quite like it! Gonna save it for reference ;)

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 3rd, 2019, 11:31 pm
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CAN-160
[ img ]

In the rebuilds after WW2, quite a few of the worlds nations built, bought or completed a new series of gun cruisers. These ships, designed from the start around the weapons and sensors of the post-war era, were extremely potent. Think about the Russian Sverdlov class, the Dutch and British cruisers etc. The USN had at the time a large fleet of war-built cruisers which were still used post-war.

In the early 1950's, when all these foreign cruisers were completed, the development in weapons and especially in threats started to change from the WW2 era. The first missiles, both anti-air and anti-ship, started to appear.Neither of them were thought to be extremely effective though, and it was widely accepted that this first generation of missile systems would not be entirely operational and mission capable for some time. Nobody knew exactly which direction the development of missiles would go after the introduction of the 3T (Talos, Terrier, Tartar) missiles on USN ships.

In this difficult to predict development environment, another program was started. The nuclear submarine Nautilus was comissioned in 1954, and the USN needed nuclear reactors operational on warships of different sizes and types to reach fast worldwide deployment with the lower number of ships the postwar USN had available. However, nuclear reactors were not cheap, and a ship fitted with them would be operational for decades.

In this time era of unknowns in development, the fitting of the C1W cruiser reactors on a missile ship was rejected, as it was expected that the first generation of missile ships would not be effective decades later (This was correct, note the redesignation of the CAG's and the Gyatt back to gun ships after their missile installations were not considered effective anymore in the late 1960's). A nuclear powered ship fitted with this first generation missile armament would thus require major remodellings relatively early in its life. This was far less an issue for the wartime cruiser conversions, which would just be replaced as their hulls were no longer state of the art anyways. So, it was proposed to fit an new nuclear powered cruiser with the latest in gun armament, used for shore bombardment, anti-ship (anti-cruiser) warfare and a strong set of multi-purpose secondary guns. The long range, high speed operational effectiveness of such a ship would release the existing cruiser fleet for either sale or missile conversion. In addition, the new ship would be built with more growth space and more powerful systems then the existing CA's and CL's could ever hope to field due to restrictions on their hull and (space for), generators, stability or logistics. The ship was built around both the weight requirements of the previous generation of ships, with their heavy guns and armoured turrets, and the expected requirements for future updates, requiring at that point lots of deck space, internal volume and generator capacity.

CAN-160, comissioned in 1959, was thus a ship that was not just an incredebly powerful gun cruiser, but also a ship that had the ability to be upgraded with whatever the future might bring. The hull and her upperworks was basically laid out in 8 main sections:
- A central propulsion section with the 2 big steam turbines, generators and 2 C1W reactors.
- Abeam of this section were, on each side, the secondary armament sectors, where as comissioned 2 Mk 42 5''/54 singles and 2 Mk 37 3''/70 twins were fitted on each side.
- Forward and aft (and partially on top of) of the propulsion section were the fire control sectors, were the main directors were placed, as comissioned 2 AN/SPG-49 forwards and 2 aft. These were a slightly modified variant of the AN/SPG-49 built so they could be used for gun direction.
- Forward and aft of the fire control sections were the weapon sectors, as comissioned fitted with 2 twin 8''/55RF Mk 16 gun turrets, a lighter twin turret variant of the ones used on the Des Moines class.
- On top of the propulsion section was a tall aluminium superstructure placed, that kept an clear view over the large directors and offered space for both flagship facilities and a set of powerful radars. Aside this superstructure 2 Mk 56 fire control systems were placed, which could take over fire control from the fore and aft fire control sections in case of issues with the high tech SPG-49's.

This layout gave the ship the required growth space for future updates and also allowed future upgrades to be done without a complete remodel of the existing arrangement. Over the ships life, this capability has been used a few times.

The following layout for example, was used as an example how the ship would be ready for the future: she could take 2 installations of the same type as the CLG conversions received, either an Mk 7 or Mk 9 on-deck installation. (this was one of the main reason for her having 4 twin turrets as opposed to the 'normal' 3 tripples) Mk 7 Talos installation illustrated because she uses the same directors as the base ship and was considered the 'cruiser' system of the 3T series.
[ img ]

In the late 1960's, the ships 5'' guns were no longer considered effective mid range air defence systems, so they were replaced by 2 Mk 13 launchers firing Tartar missiles.
[ img ]

An Typhon conversion was planned (but not carried out due to the cancellation of Typhon) and the ship was kept as primary a gun cruiser until 1980, when the ship was remodelled into an strike cruiser fitted with the AEGIS system.

I might draw these last variants (and maybe some others I thought of during the design work for this ship) at some point, but right now I have to finish her up before this challenge closes, this is already one hell of a late entry! I hope this powerful bastard is well liked by you all!

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Last edited by acelanceloet on March 4th, 2019, 2:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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reytuerto
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 4th, 2019, 12:16 am
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Well, as we said in spanish: "valió la pena esperar!" An atomic muscle boy!


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Charguizard
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 4th, 2019, 2:48 am
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Pantserkruiser Cramer (1946)
Rep. Sch. Barend Barendsz Cramer
Rep. Sch. Westerwolt

[ img ]


EDIT: complete image added.

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Last edited by Charguizard on March 4th, 2019, 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 4th, 2019, 2:56 am
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Nice and powerful gun cruiser, but that A/A gun in froft of superstructure seem a tight fit to me.


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reytuerto
Post subject: Re: Postwar Gun Cruiser challengePosted: March 4th, 2019, 2:58 am
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Almost complete! Eagerly waiting for your drawing! también valió la pena la espera! Another grown up boy! (cruiser? yes, but as the americans said "large -CB- cruisers" ;) ), very powerful, and the detail of the ondulating bow is "sexy": a handsome vessel!


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