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Hood
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 26th, 2019, 7:51 pm
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Some very nice looking designs being created here.

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 28th, 2019, 5:54 pm
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Hello Again!

You guys keep posting challenges that wreck my AU continuity. First heavy bombers, now nuclear subs…

Type F-2000 nuclear powered fleet submarine (Conaire-Class)
After the Second World War, Thiaria signed a peace treaty under whose conditions it vowed to eschew nuclear weaponry of any kind forever. Thiaria’s political left interpreted this treaty as also forbidding any other military use of nuclear power, and for many years, Thiaria harboured no ambitions in this direction. This changed after the 1991 military coup in the Soviet Union. Desperate for hard currency, the Soviet Junta was willing to sell anything to anyone, including nuclear submarines. The Lemurians, whose economy had soared in the 1980s and 1990s and who were undergoing an amazing modernization process on all levels of society, had the necessary cash and acquired four used Victor-III-class submarines and another eight new ones based upon a downscaled design called Victor-IV between 1995 and 2005; the last four were locally built. The Lemurians also acquired aircraft carriers with planes, cruisers, destroyers, frigates, land-based long-range bombers, and missiles of all kinds – in short, everything they needed to become the dominant naval power in the southern hemisphere. Before the millennium was over, Lemuria had tripled the numerical strength of its Air Force and Navy, and its immediate neighbours – India, Recherche and Australia – were fully engaged in an arms race to match them. When Lemurian Victor-class submarines started to appear in the South Atlantic in 1997, the Thiarian government became painfully aware that the rules had changed. Early in 1998, the Thiarian Navy for the first time demanded nuclear submarines to counter the Lemurian threat. Although the Non-Proliferation treaty strictly only forbade nuclear weaponry and not nuclear propulsion, there was intense political debate in Thiaria, with Labour and the Greens categorically opposing such a project on principle. The 1998 elections however showed that the times were too volatile for principles, and yielded a Tirghrateoirai government which decided to launch a nuclear submarine project in 2000, which was labeled (with little imagination) F-2000. As Thiaria had no experience with marine nuclear reactors, they needed foreign expertise; given the limited supply of nations with such expertise and Thiaria’s strained relations with most of them, only France was a viable partner. The French themselves had launched a programme for the construction of six new nuclear powered fleet submarines in 1998, which was however rather starved of funds and proceeded painfully slowly, with delivery of the first sub scheduled 18 years after launching the programme. The Thiarians wanted six subs of their own in half the time and were willing (and able) to pay accordingly; as this would ease France’s own financial burden for their subs, the French government was happy to allow DCNS to assist the Thiarians in any way possible. Thiarian requirements exceeded France’s in some respects. They wanted 500 meters operational depth, 800 meters crush depth and thirty knots submerged speed; this required a stronger hull and a more than twice as powerful turboelectric propulsion of 35.000 shp (the K15 reactor remained the same, with a thermic output of 150 megawatts). Armament was to include 30 rather than just 20 torpedo-room weapons, plus a VLS for active anti-torpedo drones or anti-air missiles or light anti-ship or land attack missiles. A powerful spherical bow sonar – developed from the latest Thiarian set installed in their last conventional submarine type – required slanted torpedo tubes, which also were to receive a totally silent launch system. The crew of 60 was to have comfortable accommodation, plus space for another 20 personnel; a rescue sphere also was specified. To incorporate all these features, the Thiarian subs were five meters longer and almost a meter wider than the French Barracuda-class originals, and over 800 tons heavier; otherwise, both types looked similar at a glance, with diagonal fins and a silent pump-jet propulsor. The contract with the French included delivery of the entire reactor including auxiliary machinery and safety equipment, and supervision of construction work at the SCI yard at An Trionaid (formerly the state submarine yard, partly privatized in 1978) by DCNS. Design work, well funded as it was, went ahead quickly, and by 2007, the Thiarians had caught up with the French. Then the project ran into political trouble. The 2006 elections had forced the Tirghrateoirai into a coalition with the Greens, who had explicitly campaigned against the nuclear submarine project; they eventually allowed the programme to proceed, but it was cut to four units. For not scuttling the F-1000 in its entirety (and some other compromises with the Tirghrateoirai), the Greens secured massive concessions on other political areas (elimination of coal as an energy source, banning the Catholic Church from running private schools, quotes for females in all branches of the civil service, legalizing abortion and same-sex marriage). Laying down the first hull was delayed till 2009, but afterwards, work again proceeded more quickly than in France. The next three boats were laid down in 2012, 2015 and 2018, respectively; early in 2015, the SCI yard was working on three hulls simultaneously. The first boat was launched late in 2014 after five years on stocks, barely half the time the French needed for their lead boat, which was not launched before 2017. In December 2015, the first F-2000 boat was taken over for trials by the Thiarian Navy, and formally commissioned early in 2017. The next boat was completed in March 2019, the third is scheduled for June 2021 and the last one for June 2024.

Departing from traditional Thiarian submarine naming practice, the four F-2000s were (or are to be) named for Thiarian naval heroes. The lead boat (pennant F-277) is the second Thiarian warship to be named for Sean o Conaire (1767-1831), founder of the Thiarian fleet in 1807, winner of Thiaria’s first naval victory in 1808, elusive resistance fighter against the British between 1809 and 1812, successful mercenary in the service of the USN in the war between Britain and the US in 1812/14, and first Minister of the Navy of independent Thiaria. The second boat (F-278) has been named FT Trendean, after Admiral Caoimhin Trendean (1866-1957), commander of the Thiarian battlefleet during the First World War, winner of four major engagements and now generally agreed to have been the greatest tactician on either side during that conflict. The third boat (F-279) will be named FT Solcai for Vice Admiral Gearoid o Solcai (1890-1968), who commanded a slow battleship squadron in the Second World War and was the first high-ranking Thiarian admiral to join the rebellion against the fascist Murchada regime; he later was given command of the co-belligerent Thiarian squadron in the Pacific, which played a crucial and successful role in the battle of Leyte. The final boat (F-280) will receive the name LT Artacain, after Micheal o Artacain (1852-1916), victor over the Brazilian Navy in the war of 1908, Minister of the Navy during Thiaria’s dreadnought building programme and – after his return to active service – the last Thiarian admiral to perish in battle for his country early in the First World War.

[ img ]

In service, the boats will carry 28 torpedo-room weapons (plus two dummy torpedoes for drills), consisting of German-designed SeaHake Mk.4 torpedoes (part of a counter-trade package after Germany selected Thiarian Asarlai strike-fighters to replace her Tornado fleet), ANS-U submerged-launch supersonic sea-skimming missiles and SCALP-Naval land-attack cruise missiles (typical mix 16+6+6). There are two 16-cell VLS in the forward hull which can accept either supercavitating short-range anti-torpedo drones, VL Mica SAMs (encapsulated to be fired from periscope depth) or Polyphem light antiship/land attack missiles for targets not worthy of the attention of an ANS-U or SCALP-Naval missile (also encapsulated). The proposed mix is 8+8+16, although it can be varied according to mission.

Displacement 5.600 / 6.150 ts
Dimensions 103,6m x 9,3m
Propulsion K15 PWR (150 MW), twin CLTI turboelectric plant (25 MW) powering a single pump-jet propulsor
2 emergency electric engines (1 MW)
Speed 15 knots surfaced, 30 knots submerged
Range unlimited; stores for 80 days
Diving Depth 500 meters safety limit, 800 meters crush depth
Crew 60 (accommodation for 80)

Armament
4 silent-launch torpedo tubes with 28 weapons (loadout see above)
2 16-cell VLS (loadout see above)
Towed decoy (lower left fin pod)
Twin sonic decoy launcher (lower hull aft) with 12 decoys
Sensors
Optronic Periscope (sail)
Backup optical Periscope (sail)
R39S Air-/Surface Search Radar (sail)
Q28S Integrated ECM System (sail mast and conformal antennae at sail sides)
Spherical Active/Passive LF bow sonar with integrated passive LF intercept array
Chin and Sail mounted active HF navigation sonars
Sail mounted conformal array HF/LF surveillance sonars (fore and aft)
Passive LF flank array sonar
Active/Passive LF towed array sonar (lower right fin pod)
Wake Detector Sensor (Sail-mounted forward)
Self-Noise Monitor (hull conformal amidships)
Commo
Satcom (Sail)
Secure Datalink (Sail)
VHF/UHF antennae (Sail)
Underwater telephone (hull conformal forward)
ELF antenna for underwater radio (hull conformal aft)

Greetings
GD


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BB1987
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 28th, 2019, 6:25 pm
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(Lemurians? )

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AF92
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 28th, 2019, 6:31 pm
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BB1987 wrote: *
(Lemurians? )
Well, I think Lemuria is the name of the legendary continent/land between the Indian and Pacific oceans, roughly on the place of today's Indonesia.

The drawing is great as usual. Also it is nice to see Thiarians re-started to apply raider blue back on their subs again, IMHO looks much better.


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 28th, 2019, 6:44 pm
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Another very attractive entry, although she seems kind of full aft. What are the paired circular hatches forward and aft, and how does the emergency escape capsule (??) work? Certainly you could fit only a tiny fraction of the crew in there!

As a maintenance item, I'd rather have retractable bow planes near or above the waterline, not near the keel. This is a minor point.


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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 28th, 2019, 7:58 pm
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Hi all!

Lemuria - I needed a sufficiently scary enemy for the 'good guys' of the Thiariaverse; I think the poor Brazilians have been my punching ball long enough. Lemuria is located in the central Indian Ocean, about twice the size and three times the population of Thiaria. Very backwards and isolated for a long time, yet too densely populated and too militaristic to be successfully colonized, Lemuria emerged from self-inflicted isolation in the 1960s and grew to a major power during the 1980s and 1990s. I'm not yet decided what culture it will be (abandoned 15th century Chinese colony or something related to India or Persia or something entirely made up).

Circular hatches fore/aft: main ballast tank vents (too large maybe? They hardly show on schematics, can't really say what size they are).

Emergency capsule: Four men at a time, then back to the boat, and repeat the process 15 times. It's for emergencies only, I figured it's better than nothing. I did not want the thing to become too large, so hull strength won't be compromised.

Location of bow planes: I placed them where they are shown on drawings of the French Barracuda-class, to preserve the general French flair of the design. Same goes for the hull shape aft.

Will post a world map of the Tiariaverse soon, should not take too long.

Greetings
GD


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 28th, 2019, 8:21 pm
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Ah, less a traditional capsule (to the extent they're traditional for anyone) and more of a... an inverse diving bell, I guess.

I'm not aware of any efforts in the world's navies to employ such a system, which would have some substantial operational limitations. You would have issues with currents, you couldn't evacuate the whole crew at all rapidly, and (crucially) you'd need shipboard power to operate the winch which retracted the capsule for the next trip.

But it's not a concept that would be wholly without use. And, hey, AU naval architects can come up with ideas that don't work... real ones certainly do! :)


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MihoshiK
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 28th, 2019, 8:37 pm
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Very nice entries, both Ace and Garlic. Regarding Ace, I have to agree with Erik: seems like too many limber holes and vents for a boat that will not need to submerge quickly very often, since it will be submerged most of the time anyway.

Regarding Garlic: The aft taper really needs to be more slender. At speed you're running the risk of the waterflow disassociating from the hull and becoming uneven, which will generate noise, drag, and will adversely impact the flow into the prop.

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Last edited by MihoshiK on March 29th, 2019, 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 29th, 2019, 9:14 pm
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Erik and Miho, thanks for the comments, I did some modifications.

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Nuclear attack sub challengePosted: March 29th, 2019, 10:06 pm
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Hi all!

Thanks for the feedback. I reshaped the aft hull and made the ballast tank vents smaller.

For those who care - I've also uploaded a Thiariaverse world map. All new countries and islands are labeled. Some of them play a part, some I put in just for fun. Lemuria is the orange one in the Indian Ocean.

http://shipbucket.com/wiki/index.php/Fi ... ldmap1.png

Greetings
GD


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