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MC Spoilt B'stard
Post subject: Re: Future Royal Netherlands Navy & Belgian Naval ComponentPosted: November 9th, 2018, 11:21 pm
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Today the final design of the Combat Support Ship has been released and the name.

The ship will be named ''HNLMS Den Helder'' named after the home base of the RNLN. This is a new name for dutch naval ships and was not expected.
For the design the Damen LSV 19000 was used and large parts were taken from the JSS Karel Doorman design. The ships design was finished within 2 years from the start of the project.

With 179,5 m length much shorter then her ''sister'' but the same tanker capacity (7700 m2 Diesel + 1000 m2 Aviation Fuel). With 2 RAS positions and 20x 20ft containers and 2 deck cranes.
It has 2 RHIB's onboard and optional it can take 2 FRISC's for boarding operations. On the weapons not much info has been released but it will be fitted with 1 Goalkeeper CIWS and most likely with 1 30 mm Marlin on the bow + 2 12,7 mm Hitroles. For decoys the Rheinmetall MASS is planned on the artist impressions. It has a flight deck and hangar for the NH-90, likely 2 in the hangar.
For sensors it looks like the Thales NS-100 radar and some phased array plates in the mast (comms), the mast itself is a special design with the funnels intergrated in the mast.

The ship will be ready in 2023.

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The MOD has released a animation of the ship sailing into the harbour of Den Helder. (text in dutch)
https://www.defensie.nl/actueel/nieuws/ ... arineschip

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MihoshiK
Post subject: Re: Future Royal Netherlands Navy & Belgian Naval ComponentPosted: November 14th, 2018, 11:45 am
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At IndoDefense 2018 Damen showed their refined proposal for t he combined Dutch/Belgium replacement for the M-frigates, the Omega design.

Article

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iiradned
Post subject: Re: Future Royal Netherlands Navy & Belgian Naval ComponentPosted: November 17th, 2018, 5:40 pm
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Nice looking design.


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: Future Royal Netherlands Navy & Belgian Naval ComponentPosted: November 17th, 2018, 5:48 pm
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Well, this actually starts to look interesting! Quite a change from the earlier concepts posted by DMO.

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Future Royal Netherlands Navy & Belgian Naval ComponentPosted: November 17th, 2018, 7:15 pm
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Hi all!

From what I've read, Damen is one of the leading contenders for Germany's MKS-180 programme as well after TKMS's management of F-125 was considered proof that they suck at surface ships and should really concentrate on subs. There seems to be talk about the Dutch Navy selecting some TKMS sub design (216?) if the German Navy goes for Damen's proposal for MKS-180. Might be just gossip (German news magazines are notorious for their poor knowledge of defence issues, probably because German journalists consider interest in such matters as dishonourable and embarrassing). The decision on the contractor for MKS-180 is due for 2019; funding has been provided last week.

Anyone knows more about that topic?

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MihoshiK
Post subject: Re: Future Royal Netherlands Navy & Belgian Naval ComponentPosted: November 17th, 2018, 10:20 pm
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Garlicdesign wrote: *
Hi all!

From what I've read, Damen is one of the leading contenders for Germany's MKS-180 programme as well after TKMS's management of F-125 was considered proof that they suck at surface ships and should really concentrate on subs. There seems to be talk about the Dutch Navy selecting some TKMS sub design (216?) if the German Navy goes for Damen's proposal for MKS-180. Might be just gossip (German news magazines are notorious for their poor knowledge of defence issues, probably because German journalists consider interest in such matters as dishonourable and embarrassing). The decision on the contractor for MKS-180 is due for 2019; funding has been provided last week.

Anyone knows more about that topic?

Greetings
GD
The only thing I know is that apparently Damen representatives at Indodefense 2018 told journos that their MKS-180 offer is NOT the Omega Frigate, but a seperate, undisclosed design.

I'd be seriously amazed if our military went for the TKMS subs instead of the joint Damen/SAAB design. TKMS is fucking up their sub programs something hard from what I've heard, and simply buying a complete product does nothing for insitutional knowledge. The Damen/SAAB sub seems a much more interesting program, with much larger Dutch workshare.

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MC Spoilt B'stard
Post subject: Re: Future Royal Netherlands Navy & Belgian Naval ComponentPosted: November 19th, 2018, 10:47 pm
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Garlicdesign wrote: *
Hi all!

From what I've read, Damen is one of the leading contenders for Germany's MKS-180 programme as well after TKMS's management of F-125 was considered proof that they suck at surface ships and should really concentrate on subs. There seems to be talk about the Dutch Navy selecting some TKMS sub design (216?) if the German Navy goes for Damen's proposal for MKS-180. Might be just gossip (German news magazines are notorious for their poor knowledge of defence issues, probably because German journalists consider interest in such matters as dishonourable and embarrassing). The decision on the contractor for MKS-180 is due for 2019; funding has been provided last week.

Anyone knows more about that topic?

Greetings
GD
A trade between Damen and TKMS has been (rumored to be) proposed by TKMS to the german government lobby. As MihoshiK already said Damen will not use the Omega frigate for the MKS-180 proposal, the class is build upon the early requirments for the M-frigate replacement programme for the Dutch and Belgian navies. It is also proposed to Indonesia for its Future Frigate programme, they could join the M-frigate replacement programme to replace the 6 Ahmad Yani class (ex-Van Speijk) frigates with 4 to 6 new frigates.

The Dutch MOD had previously stated that the M-frigate replacement will also serve as base for the replacement of the Zeven Provincien class AAW frigates in the 30's. The German Sachsen class frigates need to be replaced in the same timeframe.

For the future submarine project 4 proposals have been offered:
- Damen-Saab with A26 Oceanic ER or a design based upon A26 Oceanic ER
- Naval Group with modified Baracuda submarine
- TKMS with a unknown design
- Navantia with S-80 design

In my oppinion the S-80 in itself should not even be considered due to the problems within the Spanish program. Beside the S-80 problems Navantia also offered its proposal for the future MCMV's but was eliminated for not being able to provide bank support for the project. The submarine project is 4 times that value.

TKMS also is not a stable company at this time what could provide a higher risk to the project. Also its submarines are not proven in the open waters where the Dutch submarines operate.

My #1 is the A26 Oceanic ER at this point, also this will be the only proposal to be build in the Netherlands. The hulls will be produced in Sweden but interior and completion will be done by Damen Schelde in Vlissingen.

This video was released at Euronaval 2018 by Saab
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY-2Nc0_Bog

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