Alt History Mail Mail ship and KVG

[JSB]

Hi my first attempt at shipbucket please tell me all the (many, its not finished/still WIP) ways I could improve them or fix any rules I have broken, who/how to credit properly I made them on paint and not sure what counts as parts and when it is copying and you should credit etc,
Thanks JSB

1934 Mail Ship designed to bypass the treaty by being a totally civilian ship, loads (20+ ) built to cover the Atlantic gap for mail planes to Canada and many other empire routes,
(no weapons or armour and only space for 6 planes! (well big twin engined mail ones with none folding wings ), no it doesn’t have unit machinery it was just cheaper to put in two sets rather than design a new one and no the water tanks and fuel are not a TDS they are for ballasting down to make a more stable flight deck).



1937 laid down KVG Alt because the Big Gun club will not really settle for the mail ships but we want the cheapest and quickest thing we can for the next few years using old stuff from R class in new hull at 35k (well after the lawyers have played with it).

[Bombhead]

These look to be really nice concepts JSB. Photobucket has resized them, try Majhost and repost them.

[Hood]

Welcome aboard!
There are some interesting concepts here. As Bombhead says, if you can repost them without the compression then we could get a better look at them.

[JSB]

ARR photobucket and paint ! (I have only just discovered transparency after I have fixed all the background pixel by pixel when I added each turret .

Here is my first ship I made.
BB Alt KVG 1938

[denodon]

Interesting looking design. That searchlight in front of the bridge looks to be in a pretty bad position however. I would move it to the bridge wings and have one on either side instead but that's just my thinking.
Also without the rear turrets the smaller section of the main belt may not be required. It's not really protecting much at that height and adds weight.

Drawing itself looks good, look forward to seeing your other works.

[JSB]

In this alternative my chief constructor in early 1930's is a bit more worried that the royal navy needs some new ships soon and thinks about what they needs with the use of a solid round glass object given to him by an old woman at a fair ground....


He sits down and realises that The treaty’s will allow the laying down of new BB's on 1 Jan 37 and that he must start to think what will be needed, He sees the missions that the RN needs to deal with...

Surface combat ranging from Small opponents such as ( pocket BB's/CA's ) up to raiding medium battleships ( Kongo ), big such as ( Bismarck ) up to a full fleet action via Italy or Japan.

These lead him to the following thoughts,
A) First that the RN needs more BB's NOW and that they need lots of ships to deal with many different things at once. So the smallest/cheapest/fastest to build the better. As the RN will not get to pick its dates to hunt raiders 3 smaller is better than 2 bigger as as if one in in dock you still have 2/3 rather than ½, as long as it is not to small to be useful against its opponents.
B) This small BB should be able to tack on small threats by itself (ie pocket battleship or Kongo / Italian rebuilds/ Sharnhorst ), but must still be capable of dealing in a pack with bigger stuff or taking part in a battle line. This will require guns capable of damaging large BB's (14'/15'/16'+) and armour to survive 16'.
C) Since most of the time the enemy will be running avoiding battle with our larger fleet, we will need to catch them this will require lots of speed 30Kn+ (so the nice Nelson's, R's are not going to useful).
D) We will need to have good AA fire to defend from aircraft, so we will need to use lots of dual purpose secondary guns in powered turrets, as well as lots of light AA and directors.
E) We will need very strong underwater defences to protect against torpedoes (air or sub ) bombs (air) / mines threats.
F) That The RN has lots of BB's its just that they are mostly old (QE's/R's/Hood) and to slow (Nelson's, QE's and R's) to do the job's would it not just be cheaper to rebuild them ? But no the R's just cant be made into fast BB's can they.
G) Money(GB can't outspend 3 different powers),Time(the threats are already built/building so we need to be fast)and construction capacity (we still have a large shipbuilding industry but much is old and only one company can make BB sized guns/mounts and we only managed to keep so much armourer rolling capacity subsidised).
H) Since we want the smallest BB's (we would like everybody else to do so as well !) so the foreign office has been very good at making treaty organising limits and they think we may well be able to get them get even down to 14' that would be good, at that point the round glass object starts to glow brightly... we will never get people to go for less than what we have now will we so 35k and 16' it is . It glows again … so hum well we where under by 1700 with nelson so maybe the board will accept 36.7k hum as long as I promise it will come out under, will be a scandal if it doesn’t I would have to resign in 1939 if it doesn’t O well lets hope.
I) Due to the treaty cutting numbers its unlikely to involve large fleets fighting side by side and more likely be independent or small numbers fighting as they close or chase each other, this will encourage end rather than broadside fire(so we want super firing turrets giving good frontal arcs as we will not be the side running away ).

He starts to consider the options and draw, hum what if ….

[JSB]

My first Spring sharp this is only a rough guide so may not match the final boat exactly.

KGV (1938 Eemergency class), GB Treaty Battleship laid down 1937

Displacement:
33,760 t light; 35,464 t standard; 38,219 t normal; 40,422 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(757.00 ft / 745.00 ft) x 95.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.33 ft)
(230.73 m / 227.08 m) x 28.96 m x (8.53 / 8.94 m)

Armament:
6 - 15.00" / 381 mm 42.0 cal guns - 1,636.38lbs / 742.25kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1912 Model
3 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, forward evenly spread
1 raised mount
20 - 4.50" / 114 mm 45.0 cal guns - 45.94lbs / 20.84kg shells, 400 per gun
Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1937 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 raised mounts - superfiring
4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck aft
40 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.81lbs / 0.82kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1937 Model
3 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline ends, majority aft
3 raised mounts
2 x 2 row octuple mounts on sides, aft deck forward
2 double raised mounts
Weight of broadside 10,809 lbs / 4,903 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 15.0" / 381 mm 370.00 ft / 112.78 m 16.00 ft / 4.88 m
Ends: 2.00" / 51 mm 260.73 ft / 79.47 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m
114.27 ft / 34.83 m Unarmoured ends
Main Belt covers 76 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
2.00" / 51 mm 484.25 ft / 147.60 m 27.24 ft / 8.30 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.00 ft / 22.86 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 13.0" / 330 mm 8.00" / 203 mm 13.0" / 330 mm
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 6.00" / 152 mm
3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm 0.50" / 13 mm

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 6.00" / 152 mm
Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 4.00" / 102 mm, Aft 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 4 shafts, 140,002 shp / 104,441 Kw = 30.42 kts
Range 9,030nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 4,959 tons

Complement:
1,366 - 1,776

Cost:
£14.594 million / $58.377 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 2,112 tons, 5.5 %
- Guns: 2,112 tons, 5.5 %
Armour: 14,366 tons, 37.6 %
- Belts: 4,223 tons, 11.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 976 tons, 2.6 %
- Armament: 3,389 tons, 8.9 %
- Armour Deck: 5,656 tons, 14.8 %
- Conning Towers: 122 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 3,880 tons, 10.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,952 tons, 33.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,458 tons, 11.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 450 tons, 1.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 150 tons
- Above deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
76,306 lbs / 34,612 Kg = 45.2 x 15.0 " / 381 mm shells or 11.9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 17.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 64 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.71
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.27

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.675 / 0.681
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.84 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 31.19 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 56 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 42.00 ft / 12.80 m, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 32.00 ft / 9.75 m, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 26.00 ft / 7.92 m, 28.00 ft / 8.53 m
- Average freeboard: 29.05 ft / 8.85 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 221.1 %
Waterplane Area: 57,896 Square feet or 5,379 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 121 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 181 lbs/sq ft or 884 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.67
- Overall: 1.05
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Cost can be reduced by £4.5M due to reused turrets (- refurbishment costs) + any reused armour from R's.
The ship is declared at 35kt standard due to not including all the ammunition and miscellaneous weight (not going to include the radar in 1937 public plans are we ).

[JSB]

Thanks denodo, that’s what happens when you cut a Queens Ann's from one ship and then fit a turret with a AA gun on top without thinking , will put in the change list or may just delete it as radar will take over and we already have 6 on sides.
thanks JSB

[Bombhead]

That's better I can see the drawing now and welcome aboard JSB. As to the drawing I would say you have made a very good 1st drawing. Kit bashing ain't as easy as it looks and it's nice to see it done sympatheticly with no mismatches and everything lining up.
The design looks pretty sound, as Denodon pointed out you could move the main armour belt forward a bit to save on tonnage to give you a bit more speed.

[JSB]

Hi thanks for all the advice,
1)moved the light down to 6 but now with better arcs
2)not sure I can make it shorter and still cover the mags/BR/TR/etc with the main belt ? note the blocks are just 'guesstimate' please tell me if they are wrong.


thanks JSB