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EricJP65
Post subject: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 28th, 2010, 5:40 am
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A friend of mine got me into this site and I started giving it a try. I did a jet-ski, day-cruiser, and mermaid. This however will be my first Warship, and I decided to do something that I haven't seen on this site or elsewhere in Shipbucket scale.

I present, the precursor to the first 'battleships', the Phoenician Bireme.
[ img ]

37 meters long, 112 rowers, 10 crew, and 30-50 marines. Top speed ~9kph


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Colombamike
Post subject: Re: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 28th, 2010, 5:44 am
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Great beginning :)


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EricJP65
Post subject: Re: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 28th, 2010, 5:54 am
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Thanks, I'm trying to figure out what to do next, I have one idea, but I need to dig out my tablet for it.


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Portsmouth Bill
Post subject: Re: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 28th, 2010, 7:41 am
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It is certainly very different, so well done and welcome aboard. I can't comment on the accuracy or such, but there is a loss of detail inside the strong black outline; this is probbaly due to the small scale and having muted tones. It might improve if you enhanced the details in stronger colours - just a suggestion :)


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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 28th, 2010, 7:57 am
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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 28th, 2010, 8:49 am
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may I ask.... why is mitchell credited?

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MitcheLL300
Post subject: Re: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 28th, 2010, 2:51 pm
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acelanceloet wrote:
may I ask.... why is mitchell credited?
His whole ship is made out of my Top view wooden floor plates (for warships/other ships with wooden floors, i used it for battleships)
Thats the only thing i can think off why he credited me... :?:

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Embarked on: HNLMS Karel Doorman A833
To do list:
-Karel Doorman Class variants (Chile,Belgium,Portugal)
-Jacob van Heemskerck Class (90% done)
-Kortenaer Class (touch up for current standards)
-Sachsen Class Frigates (10% done)
-Johan De Witt L801 (updating to modern standard)


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EricJP65
Post subject: Re: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 28th, 2010, 4:18 pm
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I did use your top plates Mitchell, I found them buried in the archive forum and I figured to go on the safe side of giving credit. As for the color suggestion, I'll get to work on that, darkening the planks and details, increase the contrast slightly.

Changed the colors.

[ img ]


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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 28th, 2010, 5:53 pm
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Several questions? Where's the ship's apostis (parexeiresia), that is, its outrigger? We shouldn't believe those proponents who say that Phoenician (and Roman) vessels didn't carry one! The width of the ships would've been grotesque compared to the length, i e a completely illogical and, for warships highly ineffectual length/beam ratio. Also, its sides are too high, causing a disturbing and dangerous instability. Also, the stern looks a tad awkward. I've never seen any image or inscription depicting ancient war vessels with such a stern. And, lastly, you may consider rearranging the oar rows, since I believe you may have wanted to depict an early (8th-7th c. BC) penteconter, i e a fifty, where you hade (this is the most accepted theory, for lack of hard evidence!) 25 oarsmen a side, arranged on two levels, with (probably) thirteen on the upper level (zygioi or zygites) and twelve on the lower level, i e in the hull (thranitai), which would equal 25 pairs of oars. Alternatively you could find examples that had the following configuration: 14 zygites on the upper level; eleven thranites on the lower. This oar-system was called dikrotos, as opposed to the trikrotos system of the later Threes. This was undoubtedly the most common war vessel before the introduction of the triereis (or trireme) in the 5th c. BC. Finally, I would suggest that the bow or prow with the rather starkly protruding ram should be made less exaggerated and with a softer upward bottom (keel) flare. Also the mast appears to be way too far back. Since ancient mariner relied heavily on the fore-and-aft sail structure with relative simple rigging, making it hard to sail close-hauled to the wind, they positioned the mast (if carrying only one) as much forward as possibly without jeopardizing the ship's inherent stability. And, and this is the final remark: where's the ship's steering oar? We know from inscriptions etc, that these ships indeed had two over-sized oars situated either side of the Pentarch's seat aft. These oars were handled only by the most experienced seamen in the fleet! These helmsmen were called keleustes, and possessed a very high reputation.

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EricJP65
Post subject: Re: First Warship, Something different.Posted: October 29th, 2010, 4:14 am
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Sorry, I was busy with school and homework earlier. I worked on the ship just now and did some of your suggestions bezobrazov. I moved the sail forward, made it 25 oars (13 upper, 12 lower), changed the bow slightly, redid the stern. I looked online and couldn't find any examples of phoenician biremes with an outrigger so I don't have anything to use as reference. The coloring and shields are based off what I remember from Age of Empires, the galley units.

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