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Cascadia
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 16th, 2016, 11:19 am
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I really like this drawing.
As I'm no expert for modern ship equipment, the only thing I would change right now are your SH-60s. This drawing deserves better one.
The following sheet includes SH-60J that I think would be a more proper version for your Yamato
http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... DF#p159129

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KWAM
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 16th, 2016, 2:50 pm
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Cascadia wrote:
I really like this drawing.
As I'm no expert for modern ship equipment, the only thing I would change right now are your SH-60s. This drawing deserves better one.
The following sheet includes SH-60J that I think would be a more proper version for your Yamato
http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... DF#p159129
Your SH-60 drawings are much better than the one I was using. It was supposed to be an SH-60K, not an SH-60J, but you have drawings of both so that's not an issue. I've replaced it with your SH-60K.
r3mu511 wrote:
re. gun fire control: since you already have spy-1d, you can just have a similar system like the ddg-51's mk-34 gws (gun weapon system) which uses the spy-1d as it's main source for targeting data (ref: http://www.tpub.com/gunners/232.htm)...
This is actually exactly what I needed, everything makes sense now. I specifically mentioned the Mk 160 Gun Computer System under the electronics section at first but never really looked into it. Turns out the JMSDF Atago- and Kongo-class ships have this same system, with ranging data pulled from a Mk 46 Optical Sight System and track data provided by the SPY radar as well as the surface search radar (USN ships use the AN/SPG-67, while the JMSDF equivalent would likely be the OPS-28). It also explains why the JMSDF FCS-2 is only present on their second line destroyers and smaller warships (Murasame- and Takanami-class destroyers for example) but never on any of their main line Aegis destroyers.

The problem was, up until this morning I was barely even aware that the Mk 46 even existed. The Wikipedia page for the Atago has a brief mention of it in the electronics section without any details, and the thing is so small ("trivially small", if you will) that I never even noticed it on any of the photos or even other shipbucket drawings I looked at despite how important it actually was. This may also be part of the reason why I rather stupidly assumed that the targeting data is pulled from the SPG-62, since I could never find anything that resembled an optical rangefinder.

But all that should be fixed now, so here's the new version:

[ img ]

And the B-Side:

[ img ]


Last edited by KWAM on August 17th, 2016, 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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r3mu511
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 17th, 2016, 1:33 am
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KWAM wrote:
Cascadia wrote:
... with ranging data pulled from a Mk 46 Optical Sight System and track data provided by the SPY radar...
you probably already know this, but just to clarify: the track data from spy1 includes range data as well...


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KWAM
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 17th, 2016, 6:54 pm
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r3mu511 wrote:
you probably already know this, but just to clarify: the track data from spy1 includes range data as well...
I know, just focused more on the Mk 46 because it required edits to the drawing and is still an integral part of the system.


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 17th, 2016, 9:50 pm
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Welcome to the Shipbucket!
Regardless of the 'technical' and 'common sense' issues with that design (of which You are already aware), it's indeed a very well executed work. :)

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 18th, 2016, 12:28 am
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This is what Shipbucket is all about. If only all new members could contribute to this high standard... you've put a lot of long-standing guys to shame!

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 18th, 2016, 1:58 pm
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citizen lambda
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 18th, 2016, 4:34 pm
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Hello and welcome KWAM, and congratulation for a remarkable first entry!

I'm way late in the game and don't have much to add on the design that hasn't been said yet. Well executed drawing all around, well thought out kitbash, some great ideas in there.

Couple of minor remarks/questions/nitpicks so I don't feel completely useless:
- Lifeboats, maybe? I'd understand if you have decided not to show them yet, but there should be some space available for them. Also aren't the rectangular grids on the main turrets old-school non-inflatable life rafts? You could certainly do without those.
- Since you have a lot of VLS space, can't you carry some VL-ASRocs? You have ASW helicopters after all, and this Yamato is going to be a prime target for hostile subs. This just entails adding the VLA missile beside the Standards.
- Also re. missiles and basic drawing style, don't forget the RAMs above the SeaRAM launchers.
- Also re. VLS, what does your forward VLS replace in the original ship? I must confess I don't know much about the Yamato, but I'm surprised to see so much free space/weight available so far forward. Did you check the amount of VLS cells against a top view of the ship?

Still, great job all around, looking forward to seeing more of your work.

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KWAM
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 18th, 2016, 8:34 pm
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I didn't think there was space for lifeboats, at least not on the superstructure or deck. Boats aboard ship on the Yamato class were generally kept in the boat hangar on her stern to shield them from the blast of the main guns, which could outright destroy them if they were placed on deck.

Though that point really does beg the question of just what the hell was I thinking when I put those rafts on the turrets.

The VL-ASROC wasn't added originally because the ship doesn't carry sonar and I wasn't sure quite sure whether it would actually work without it. But, I just had the (horribly belated) realization that it would be possible for an escort to find the sub, then relay a firing solution to the Yamato through a datalink and have Yamato fire the ASROC instead, almost like an arsenal ship. I'll add it along with the RAMs that I forgot.

About the VLS as a whole, I did check. A 4 cell wide Mk 41 is around 125" or 3.47m. I'm trying to do this thing with 16 cell wide Mk 41s, so it's around 14m wide total. The length of the VLS was never really a concern. The Yamato's hull has a beam of 38.9m (very nearly double that of an Atago-class destroyer, which has a beam of 21m), and the forward section of the ship was also lengthened by 15m so it's not really replacing anything. Even if the forward section hadn't been lengthened, the only thing there is crew quarters which aren't too important with the reduced size of the crew. At the position the VLS is to be added, the hull is wide enough even at the waterline, which is only reached by the 64 strike length cells in the middle anyway (the 64 on the sides are self-defense length). It might be cutting it close, but there is more than enough room for the forward VLS to fit as-is, even without lengthening the forward section.

EDIT: Has the JMSDF ever operated (or planned to operate) the SM-2ER? If they have I might as well add that one too.


Last edited by KWAM on August 18th, 2016, 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BB1987
Post subject: Re: Battleship Yamato Aegis Modernization and RebuildPosted: August 18th, 2016, 8:39 pm
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I'm just speculating, but would it be possible, if needed, to fit a sonar inside the shipìs bulbous bow?

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