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John_McCarthy1
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 22nd, 2017, 5:29 am
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ok, quick update
[ img ]
1st I thickened the launcher platform and raised the catapult so people can see the top of the hanger to actually see the door and in my personal opinion i think it makes it easier to see as a hanger, I've been debating on doing this because in the original image the catapult covers the top of the hanger from the side view.
2nd I used the new SOC Seagull from your USS Helena picture.
3rd I thinned down the tower that holds the Plane/utility boat crane because it looked thinner to me on the top view of the proposal's image.
4th I lowered the radar masts a decent amount
5th tried my hand at a little of the shading on the hull, which I've just realized I need to put more under the support blades? on the side of the hull.
6th I changed the aft structure after looking at the Proposal's image from both the top and side view to get an idea of how it would look.
I also added 4 red line that are horizontal because looking at the image there is a little bit that comes out a bit the 1st and 4th line are where it starts to move out from the rest of the structure and the 2nd and 3rd lines are where it flattens out and starts moving back to the rest of the structure ( I hope this was a good enough description) i put them down as red because i'm not really sure what shade colors to use.

p.s oh I seem to have forgotten to color the fwd mast, i'll fix that for the next update.
p.p.s I still don't know how to stack the 26' boat in the 40' boat, I am also unsure what version of the 26' boat to use because I couldn't find any specific years when I tried looking it up on google.

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What I like to work on/plan to work on:
US ship Proposals and prototypes
other ships that haven't yet been put up on Ship bucket
Suggestions Welcomed!!!

Currently working on:
Heavy cruiser CA-B Proposal: ~75% done.
Getting better: Always being worked on.


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 22nd, 2017, 4:34 pm
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What you describe as "support blades" are known in the industry as bilge keels, and are used to mitigate the ship's roll. They serve the same purpose as a keel on e.g. a sailboat, but do not project below the structural floor of the ship, which is important for navigational draft as well as drydocking.

Making good progress! I am not super knowledgeable about this era of USN equipment, but it's becoming a rather attractive drawing.


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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 22nd, 2017, 4:45 pm
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Nice, looking better. The masts look perfect now - same with the catapult tower foundation and the crane foundation.

The hull shading looks good - I generally don't shade under the bilge keel (the curved "support blades" that provide horizontal stability), but I do color the face of the bilge keel with a highlight color to represent how it curves out from the side of the hull at a 90 degree angle. I would not shade the rudder or the flat keel under the stern the way you have - I would make them the standard hull color as they are flat vertical surfaces.

Your red lines on the aft superstructure are a good "guide" for where the deck levels should be. That area would likely house the after/emergency conning station ("Battle Two", where the XO of the ship is stationed to allow for him to take command of the ship if "Battle One" (the bridge) is destroyed). The top most level immediately around the Mark 37 director (for the 5" guns) is the air defense level, and will house sky lookout chairs and target designators. There will also be a second signalmen's position just ahead of the aft Mark 38 director (for the 8" guns) with signal flag bins that can be flown up the mainmast halyards.

Another interesting thing to think about is what specific AA armament you want to go with. The radar fit you have suggests a ship in 1944-1945, but the ship is currently fitted with the early 1.1" quad machine cannons. Probably best to first show this version with 40mm Bofors and Mark 51 directors. Maybe later you can make an "as built" version with all early (1942) equipment and a Measure 12 scheme!

Re: the boats, I actually wouldn't bother stacking your 26' whaleboat in the 40' motor launch. The whaleboat is the "utility" boat of the ship and would likely be carried on davits along the deck edge, to be easily launched and recovered without having to be stacked again. The personnel boat (the one with the windows) and the 40' motor launch would be stacked in an amidships position. But, this also brings to mind another contradiction: the late-war combatants NEVER carried all the big boats, after experience in the Solomons campaigns showed what a huge fire hazard it was to have a big stack of wooden boats amidships. By 1943 even most of the cruisers were only carrying two 26' whaleboats, and that was it! This makes your job easier (I personally hate drawing boats and their handling arrangements) - as you only have to place a whaleboat and davits ;) - I would put them abeam your mainmast, or just ahead of the catapult along the deck edge.

Here's the part to use: [ img ]

This is the usual 26' motor whaleboat (with two versions, one painted all-over grey and one with a black painted hull), with the handling davits. The davits can be shortened to accommodate your ship. The grey lines extending left and right are stay lines for the davits, and the grid of grey pixels below it is the jacob's ladder for the crew to get into the boat before launching.

Good luck!

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erik_t
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 22nd, 2017, 5:36 pm
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I do not trust any Shipbucketeer who says they like, or even tolerate, drawing boats and handling arrangements.

To hell with boats.


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John_McCarthy1
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 26th, 2017, 9:08 am
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Ok, another sit-rep:
[ img ]
1st off F**K BOATS!!! any way after a couple of times of going to work on the image and going half way through the boat placement, then not liking it and starting over I finally got a boat placement that I felt comfortable with. all I have to do with it now is find out where to connect the wires too...

2nd I placed some 40mm Bofors around the ship, just some typical Bofors placements I would had another one in between the after 5" mounts, but I didn't like the way it looked so i'll work with that later.

3rd I got a little bored and just started placing life rafts around the ship in places i though would look good.

4th and finally I changed the 1.1 AA mounts to 20mm Oerlikons and I placed down a sky seat

4.5th I put some supports under the AA platform which looks nice and I think is a step toward fleshing out the super structure.

5th I tried to shade the bit that comes out on the aft super structure to see what it looks like.

6th looking at the original image I fixed that cap on the second smokestack which I had left they way I did because working with the scaled down image it was a bit blurred

I also pulled the blue you used for the 1944 Baltimore since by your suggestion I will try to do a late war version first and then do an "as built" version. It will be interesting to do a Measure 22 paint job on a ship that doesn't have a flush deck.

suggestions are very much welcomed

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What I like to work on/plan to work on:
US ship Proposals and prototypes
other ships that haven't yet been put up on Ship bucket
Suggestions Welcomed!!!

Currently working on:
Heavy cruiser CA-B Proposal: ~75% done.
Getting better: Always being worked on.


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Mist
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 26th, 2017, 9:27 pm
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the aft pair of 40mm tubs could go just below X turret.


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John_McCarthy1
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 28th, 2017, 7:12 am
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here's what I got:
[ img ]
and here is a version with a trial of the Measure 22 camo.
[ img ]

as for what I did overall:
1st i added another life raft on the back part of the aft-most? secondary turret and placed down another 40mm Bofors mount.
2nd after REALLY looking at the way the aft super structure is represented on the proposal image, I think I have come up with what it would end up looking like structure-wise.
3rd I just added some walk ways and ladders to start "fleshing out" the super structures. I also fixed the position of the bell and light? on the back of the fwd superstructure.

I hope it's looking better by each post

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What I like to work on/plan to work on:
US ship Proposals and prototypes
other ships that haven't yet been put up on Ship bucket
Suggestions Welcomed!!!

Currently working on:
Heavy cruiser CA-B Proposal: ~75% done.
Getting better: Always being worked on.


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 28th, 2017, 2:12 pm
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The overhanging 40mm tub on the stern seems unlikely. The reason many USN cruisers of the period had such a crowded stern is because of their right-aft aircraft handling, which of course does not apply to this design.

Something more like the real-life Alaska arrangement seems likely to me.


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John_McCarthy1
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 28th, 2017, 3:04 pm
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erik_t wrote: *
The overhanging 40mm tub on the stern seems unlikely. The reason many USN cruisers of the period had such a crowded stern is because of their right-aft aircraft handling, which of course does not apply to this design.

Something more like the real-life Alaska arrangement seems likely to me.
ah ok, I had just been basing the AA placements on the Baltimore class, although since you point it out, it does make sense for me to move the AA mount back in towards the ship

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What I like to work on/plan to work on:
US ship Proposals and prototypes
other ships that haven't yet been put up on Ship bucket
Suggestions Welcomed!!!

Currently working on:
Heavy cruiser CA-B Proposal: ~75% done.
Getting better: Always being worked on.


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csatahajos
Post subject: Re: CA-B WIPPosted: July 29th, 2017, 8:42 pm
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Joined: January 10th, 2013, 10:52 pm
Very nice attempt at CA-B! I hope once you have done this you will do the CA-C and maybe some of the CA2-x series as well ;).

Keep up the good work!


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