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Hood
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 11th, 2016, 8:06 am
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The Gripsholm and the Gavle are very nice additions.

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eltf177
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 11th, 2016, 9:38 am
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Springsharp does have its problems, especially when designing cruisers and destroyers. It will let you do things that common sense say won't work (like put 25 quad 40mm's on a destroyer), so you have to exercise caution taking the results as gospel.

And of course there's always the possibility of another "Tomozuru Incident." For those who don't know the IJN had been trying to put heavy armaments on smaller hulls. The Tomozuro was an attempt to cram half the armament of a Fubuki-class destroyer onto a hull one-third the size. Things were going well until some of the fleet hit a huge storm in 1934. Tomozuro capsized while a number of destroyers suffered heavy damage. Many ships had to be rebuilt and ballast added to reduce metacentric height, which reduced speed. It's quite possible Psilander might have to answer to the Swedish Admirality Board if Bellona suffers a similar fate.

Psilander has been doing SS designs for some time now, he's no newbie...


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Johan
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 12th, 2016, 9:14 pm
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How about the motorkanonbåt 70. Find this ships very interesting.


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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 13th, 2016, 12:27 pm
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Johan wrote:
How about the motorkanonbåt 70. Find this ships very interesting.
Thanks, she is intented as a FAC killer with all those Osas, Nanuchkas & Tarantulls in the Baltic. Smal agile and with a powerfull and rapid punch.

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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 13th, 2016, 7:42 pm
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An attempt with a sub. A exprimental submarine cruiser (like the X-1) from 1918. The HMUb (His Majesty's Submarine) Jona, in service 1923-1942.

How to design subs with springsharp

[ img ]
Quote:
Jona
(Odysseus)

Sweden
Submarine Cruiser laid down 1918

Displacement:
1 754 t light; 1 805 t standard; 2 000 t normal; 2 156 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(278,96 ft / 278,87 ft) x 26,25 ft x (19,69 / 20,82 ft)
(85,03 m / 85,00 m) x 8,00 m x (6,00 / 6,35 m)

Armament:
2 - 5,98" / 152 mm 30,0 cal guns - 98,76lbs / 44,80kg shells, 80 per gun
Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1918 Model
2 x Single mounts on centreline, forward deck aft
4 - 2,24" / 57,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 5,70lbs / 2,58kg shells, 150 per gun
Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1918 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, forward deck aft
4 raised mounts
Weight of broadside 220 lbs / 100 kg
Main Torpedoes
6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m torpedoes - 1,662 t each, 9,972 t total
submerged bow tubes
2nd Torpedoes
2 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 22,97 ft / 7,00 m torpedoes - 1,468 t each, 2,937 t total
submerged bow & stern tubes

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 0,79" / 20 mm 0,79" / 20 mm 0,39" / 10 mm

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion engines plus batteries,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 4 363 shp / 3 255 Kw = 18,00 kts
Range 8 000nm at 10,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 351 tons

Complement:
75-90
Cost:
£0,194 million / $0,777 million

Operational depth: 230ft/ 69m
Emerg. dive depth: 345ft/ 103m
Crush depth: 575ft/ 172m


Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 65 tons, 3,3 %
- Guns: 40 tons, 2,0 %
- Weapons: 26 tons, 1,3 %
Armour: 12 tons, 0,6 %
- Armament: 12 tons, 0,6 %
Machinery: 157 tons, 7,9 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 1 019 tons, 51,0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 246 tons, 12,3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 25,0 %
- Hull below water: 500 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
1 490 lbs / 676 Kg = 13,9 x 6,0 " / 152 mm shells or 0,5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,10
Metacentric height 0,8 ft / 0,2 m
Roll period: 12,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 2 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,03
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,486 / 0,495
Length to Beam Ratio: 10,63 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 16,70 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20,00 %, 0,33 ft / 0,10 m, 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
- Forward deck: 30,00 %, 0,33 ft / 0,10 m, 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
- Aft deck: 35,00 %, 0,33 ft / 0,10 m, 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
- Quarter deck: 15,00 %, 0,33 ft / 0,10 m, 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
- Average freeboard: 0,33 ft / 0,10 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72,1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 2,0 %
Waterplane Area: 4 815 Square feet or 447 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 209 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 131 lbs/sq ft or 637 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 2,61
- Longitudinal: 2,21
- Overall: 2,30
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability



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eswube
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 13th, 2016, 8:57 pm
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Interesting work. :) Great to see more submarines in Your AU.

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 14th, 2016, 3:30 pm
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An unusual sub but I think the gun arrangement would work, certainly no worse that the other gun cruiser subs of that era.

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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 14th, 2016, 8:34 pm
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More odd submarines. The Hajen II class of 1956-60 equipped with the RB08 SSM in a similar "twin bin" arrengement as the US Regulus carrying subs. She has to surface to fire the missiles. She carries four missles in her magazine.

"Submerged"
[ img ]

Surfaced, with missile in firing position and one in reloading position.
[ img ]
Quote:
Type XVI
(Hajen, Sälen, Valrossen, Tummlaren, Bävern, Illern, Uttern, Minken)
Swedem Fleet missile submarine laid down 1950

Displacement:
1 846 t light; 1 886 t standard; 2 000 t normal; 2 091 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(295,28 ft / 295,28 ft) x 19,69 ft x (19,69 / 20,43 ft)
(90,00 m / 90,00 m) x 6,00 m x (6,00 / 6,23 m)

Armament:
Main Torpedoes
6 - 21,0" / 533 mm, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m torpedoes - 1,790 t each, 10,740 t total
submerged bow tubes

1 - Rail for Robot 08 SSM/Land-Attck Missle. Active radar homeing to 150km. 4 reloads carried

Machinery:
Diesel Internal combustion motors,
Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 2 shafts, 3 539 shp / 2 640 Kw = 17,00 kts
Range 10 000nm at 8,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 205 tons

Complement:
149 - 194

Cost:
£0,598 million / $2,391 million

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dc1
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 14th, 2016, 10:06 pm
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Nice to have you back drawing. The cruisers are lovely. The submarines seem to be a bit "thin". Only a 6m beam at a length of 90m seem to small.. Oberon class was about 90X 8 m....


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: August 14th, 2016, 10:09 pm
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dc1 wrote:
Nice to have you back drawing. The cruisers are lovely. The submarines seem to be a bit "thin". Only a 6m beam at a length of 90m seem to small.. Oberon class was about 90X 8 m....
well I think he draw it like that, due to that Swedish submarines are operating in very shallow waters.


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