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APDAF
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 6:01 pm
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You could put the engine in the wing like the comet or Nimrod.


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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 6:11 pm
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That would be cool, but if the engines blow up or catch fire, well... You can figure out what happens... AND it increases weight and mechanical and wing complexity.

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APDAF
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 6:25 pm
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Are blow-out panels out of the question?


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Rhade
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 6:36 pm
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ezgo394 wrote:
The C-145 is one of my crazier aircraft, and one of my favorites. I do realize the single engine is a bit of a high-risk design, but fuel consumption would be less, and maintenance is a simple as... Well, one engine! Of course, this is not set in stone, so there is a chance I won't use it.
Fuel consumtion will be not low my friend, in opposite it will be a significant larger. Why ? this position of engine create enormous drag. Maintenance will be very complex and hard also because this position. And one engine on large transport plane ... you just asking for some trouble. 2 engines work on 60-70% of power, in one will be hit, blow out, stop working ect. you still have second.
ezgo394 wrote:
If I put it under the wing, I would have an An-124, and I want to be different ;) .
Well I belive you can make some big transport plane with classic layout that will work, this one will not take off from ground. ;)

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 6:54 pm
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Rhade wrote:
ezgo394 wrote:
The C-145 is one of my crazier aircraft, and one of my favorites. I do realize the single engine is a bit of a high-risk design, but fuel consumption would be less, and maintenance is a simple as... Well, one engine! Of course, this is not set in stone, so there is a chance I won't use it.
Fuel consumtion will be not low my friend, in opposite it will be a significant larger. Why ? this position of engine create enormous drag. Maintenance will be very complex and hard also because this position. And one engine on large transport plane ... you just asking for some trouble. 2 engines work on 60-70% of power, in one will be hit, blow out, stop working ect. you still have second.
I agree about the twin engines setup, but fuel consumption.. I'm not so sure. But anyways, I may not use this plane so...
Rhade wrote:
ezgo394 wrote:
If I put it under the wing, I would have an An-124, and I want to be different ;) .
Well I belive you can make some big transport plane with classic layout that will work, this one will not take off from ground. ;)
Yes it will. It's an AN-124 with overwing podded engines. It's not that different, but different enough to be unique :D . Plus, even though the engines are raised from the wing itself, I do believe that the immense amount of thrust being produced will produce a slight Coanda effect.

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Rhade
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 7:06 pm
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ezgo394 wrote:
Yes it will. It's an AN-124 with overwing podded engines. It's not that different, but different enough to be unique :D . Plus, even though the engines are raised from the wing itself, I do believe that the immense amount of thrust being produced will produce a slight Coanda effect.
Well it is a lot different, for that kind of engine positions you need whole new wing and tail design... also, Coandă effect will not show itself on this configuration and mass. ;) I have a proposition, you may try to make some baby from hell joining my soviet love the An-22 with jet engines ... in calssic layout. ;)

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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 9:19 pm
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Well, I'm someone with actual aerodynamic schooling so I can say...for the purposes of an AU, they're ok. There are structural engineering problems that would be difficult to surmount but when you're putting pixels to canvas it's not such a big deal.

Someone like Erik, who has far more aerodynamic schooling than me, might disagree, but I think it's fine.

As for over-the-wing engines...they do create structural problems, as I said, but if done properly they can have aerodynamic benefits. On the HondaJet it's to avoid disruption of the laminar flow, which is related to the "boundary layer" concept I talked about in my intro to aerodynamics guide. It's very unlikely at the scale of a large transport, but I think we can hand-wave it.

I actually like the C145 and how it creates a completely clear wing by putting the engines above the fuselage. It's not doing any structural or maintenance favors though, but we can handwave that too. I'm kinda surprised you haven't tried that with the C120 though, being the smaller aircraft it would actually make a little more sense.


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travestytrav25
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 9:42 pm
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Rhade wrote:
I have a proposition, you may try to make some baby from hell joining my soviet love the An-22 with jet engines ... in calssic layout. ;)
That actually sounds like a very interesting idea, and it would certainly look unique.

And I like the general concept of the C145 too as far as its general layout. Just not the idea of having only one engine on a transport.

Since you're a large, island nation that would probably trade and have defense agreements with other South Pacific island nations, you might consider doing some sort of large, modern amphibious transport aircraft along the lines of the Beriev A-40 and Be-200.


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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 10:22 pm
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klagldsf wrote:
Well, I'm someone with actual aerodynamic schooling so I can say...for the purposes of an AU, they're ok. There are structural engineering problems that would be difficult to surmount but when you're putting pixels to canvas it's not such a big deal.

Someone like Erik, who has far more aerodynamic schooling than me, might disagree, but I think it's fine.

As for over-the-wing engines...they do create structural problems, as I said, but if done properly they can have aerodynamic benefits. On the HondaJet it's to avoid disruption of the laminar flow, which is related to the "boundary layer" concept I talked about in my intro to aerodynamics guide. It's very unlikely at the scale of a large transport, but I think we can hand-wave it.

I actually like the C145 and how it creates a completely clear wing by putting the engines above the fuselage. It's not doing any structural or maintenance favors though, but we can handwave that too. I'm kinda surprised you haven't tried that with the C120 though, being the smaller aircraft it would actually make a little more sense.
The original design on the C120 was actually a single podded engine like on the C145! :lol:
All I had to do was put some detail on it, and it was ready to go. I've also included the bigger version of the 360 (which is based off of the An-225).
[ img ]
When you talk about the clean wing, it still has all of the fuel, and the underwing fuel tanks, so if you're referring to Wing Bending, I think it may work fine. If you're referring to the position of the engine, then I understand how that could be a major maintenance nightmare, but to make it easier in the field I was going to use access panels as a work platform (like on the Mil Mi-8). Is that what you were talking about?
I am also curious about what you mean when you say structural problems with the engine mounting on the C360. I agree with handwaving it, but I am curious.

An An-22 with podded jet engines? I don't know about that. I love it the way it is, and who would want to get rid of that loudass turboprop?!

Amphibious transport aircraft? I'm already on it: Ekranoplan!

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I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


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Trojan
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: August 1st, 2012, 11:57 pm
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I'm personally against the overhung podded single engine as an aircraft enthusiast above all else but if klag says its ok than that's enough for me it does look unique which is in some ways a blus and at least well done
Why not two of them though instead of one though that will probably hurt structural problems even more so maybe two smaller ones

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