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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 23rd, 2014, 10:09 am
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Gallan infantrymen, typical of Paneuropean troops assisting their Chinese "allies".

Typical of the Asian War theatre, a Paneuropean powered armour infantry platoon seen in camouflage green. Relatively low use of tactical nuclear weapons meant that the necessities of anti-flash white painting were forgone for personal protection against visual detection. Both Combine and Paneuropean troops had stealth paints available that could provide protection across the entire electromagnetic spectrum. Chinese troops were often left out of the stealth game, and Japanese detection systems had significant difficulty in distinguishing Paneuropean armour and infantry from the background clutter.

The platoon pictured here has seen weathering of their paint coats, signs of a close proximity to a nuclear detonation, whose thermal effects often burned haphazardly the exposed areas of infantry battlesuits. This specific unit was one of twelve infantry platoons involved in the destruction of the rogue Mark VI Cybertank, "Spirit of Quebec". EDQ's tactical processors meant that a majority of the nuclear weapons fell on the Combine tank battalion involved in the fighting, although the Gallan infantry company was not exempt. Gallan infantry in foxholes and trenches provided the first bulwark against EDQ's assault, buying time for Combine howitzers and main battle tanks to position themselves or acquire EDQ in their gunsights.

Taken either by insanity, rage, or overconfidence and marveling at how handily it had crushed the Chinese legacy tank battalion, EDQ kept assuring itself that the headless Combine unit and light scout formation of European troops were no trouble for its remaining ordnance. It barreled on a fairly linear path towards the GEV Command Post Carrier, which was broadcasting intermittently to various Combine elements, and changing positions almost constantly in a desperate effort to avoid the inevitable. Although Spirit of Quebec couldn't see the Gallans, it had full and total awareness of the Combine battalion through the datalinked "AMIE" system (the Combine counterpart to Paneurope's Copernicus), deftly avoiding their nuclear shells and rockets and returning fire when necessary.

This played directly into the hands of the Gallan captain in command, who had positioned his infantrymen directly in the center. EDQ, distracted by Combine main battle tanks, had scarcely taken notice of the line of camouflaged foxholes with anti-Ogre missile teams hidden in them. Equipped with a limited supply of nuclear weapons, the dismounted, entrenched infantry company managed to destroy some of the cybertank's continuous tracks with DRIMS tactical nuclear missiles, partially immobilising it. Despite the newest shaped charge weapons in their DRIMS missiles, Gallan infantry had extremely difficulty engaging the frontal arc of the Mark VI. EDQ shrugged off multiple tactical nukes from both Combine and infantry positions, and responded with extensive barrages from its primary and secondary batteries.

EDQ, despite being slowed, refused to quit. Despite continuous nuclear bombardment from Combine main battle tanks and Gallan infantry, it persisted in fighting. After minutes of nuclear exchange, two Combine howitzer batteries scored direct hits on the Ogre's relatively weak top armour on the rear magazine. The close proximity of nuclear detonations, and contorted angle at which EDQ had been in its persistence, severed the two articulated bodies. EDQ fell silent immediately, the brain severed from the heart. Combine tanks cautiously approached the now silent juggernaut, its body scorched black from thermal radiation and appearing as an indistinguishable white mass on thermal imagers, and narrowly avoided a catastrophe when 30mm anti-personnel cannons opened fire on them. The technicians who later dissected EDQ's cyberbrain referred to this as "reflex action". In short, EDQ's residual movements after death.

The soldiers pictured above were likely witness to multiple nuclear detonations on friendly positions, as borne by the charred and burned remains of their camouflage coatings, and countless conventional barrages. Many survivors of the Asian War later suffered from PTSD, so much that global media referred to them as the "Neglected Generation".


Excerpt from Mechanical Titans: The Cybertank 2065-2125
"... Cyberneticists who studied Spirit of Quebec's final data entries later determined that EDQ's "rogue" behaviour had been brought on by past combat experience witnessed between Chinese and Japanese forces. Spirit of Quebec had previously been attached to a Japanese Special Naval Landing Force of the Imperial Navy in the Philippines, and supported their assault on Manila with indirect nuclear fires from its "Rattler" intelligent missiles and main battery. When Japanese troops took the city, they proceeded to execute surrendering Chinese POWs and civilians, as well as other jus bello abuses. EDQ's programming had, for some reason, registered this as offensive and marked the experience for review.

It was during the Beijing Offensive that Spirit of Quebec, recognising the desperate situation that Chinese troops were facing was similar to Manila. It considered the situation, and resolved that immediate and total termination of the Chinese battalion was superior to surrender. Recognising that the Japanese may attempt to stop its assault, EDQ reasoned that the destruction of minor numbers of Combine Allied Personnel were of no importance if the immediate operational objective could be achieved with minimal human suffering, and commenced its assault. As predicted, the disruption of surprise caught the Japanese off-guard, and they attempted to halt EDQ, which opened fire on them immediately.

Combat routines took over at this point, although EDQ's high level functioning reasoned in line with them, and launched several Rattler nuclear missiles, one specifically aimed at the local Combine tactical headquarters to the West. The exact call for this was that Combine troops, acting predictably, would maneuver themselves to engage EDQ in support of the Japanese troops. Seeking to minimise Combine casualties, it targeted the nerve center of operations: the battalion's fixed command post housing the Combine Colonel in charge of the local battle area.

The remaining Rattler missiles spread out in a series of high-yield detonations directly above the battle line of Chinese militia. Approximately 70% of the battalion was killed instantly, the remainder were eliminated to the man twelve minutes when Spirit of Quebec arrived in rear area of the battalion and sterilised the area with conventional fires.

Following this, and knowing that Japanese troops could not be far behind, Spirit of Quebec made a "humane" decision. Beijing at this time was still occupied by large numbers of civilians, despite mass evacuation, some had stayed behind either unwilling to abandon their homes or simply ignorant of the situation [although the nuclear assault minutes ago made the latter fairly rare quite quickly]. EDQ located the Beijing Subdivision nearest to the Japanese positions, and proceeded to level a block of abandoned flats, broadcasting evacuation messages in Chinese.

It continued this until detection of an all-frequency transmission in Gallan, followed by heavily accented English. Combat protocols engaged and EDQ, still considering such operations "humane", made a beeline towards the Gallan GEV CPC broadcasting to surviving but disorganised Combine troops. Spirit of Quebec was still connected to the AMIE battle management system at this point, and had full view of Combine maneuvers. Knowing that Combine troops would either be both uncaring and unwilling to accept explanation, it made the decision that all combatants had to be eliminated to protect the civilian population, which meant destruction of the command and control network.

The remaining three Rattler nuclear missiles were fired towards Japanese troops, and EDQ continued its linear course towards the Gallan command post carrier coordinating the battle. Combat protocols showed no signs of deviancy or corruption, and cyberneticists involved in examination stated that Spirit of Quebec was "consciously aware, deliberate, and fully lucid".

However, the Gallan commander knew this as well, knowing that there existed no contingency protocols for "rogue" cybertanks, and had planned accordingly. EDQ would seek to avoid and evade combat with Combine troops if possible, conserving ammunition for engaging Gallan troops. He also knew of the Combine's lack of capability in detecting the newest generation of Paneuropean stealth coatings, used on its GEVs and battlesuits, and had requested that Combine troops not mark the Gallan infantry on their AMIE displays. This request was tacitly accepted by the ranking officer of the battalion, a Major, and the two men directed the battle from within the highly mobile GEV-CPC.

The first inkling that EDQ had of an ambush was a missile launch warning detected by its optical dome. It scanned the AMIE network, finding no launchers in the immediate area, and then it scanned with radar. No contacts. Visually. No contacts. Thermally. Above, a Paneuropean DRIMS tactical missile. Infantry. Entrenched, and waiting. EDQ ran a calculation of its estimated TOAE of a Gallan GEV-mounted infantry company. Eighteen DRIMS tactical missiles, each capable of up to 100 kilotons of explosive force using the m/85 Nuclear Shaped Charge. Missile warnings began appearing en masse now. EDQ presented its front axis to the Gallan infantry, and fired raking fire from its 30mm railguns and 180mm primary batteries.

The first nuclear detonations began. The sensor dome worked to compensate, protected close to the armoured hull, filtering out thermal radiation and EMP as much as possible. It became too much quickly, and EDQ began firing blindly towards the missiles. AMIE contacts appeared on the ridge, Combine main battle tanks in hulldown positions. Nuclear charges were fired from them and detonated against the hull of the Mark VI. Spirit of Quebec responded with secondary battery fire, destroying a few tank platoons and some dismounted Gallan infantry.

AMIE issued an artillery warning, friendly fire imminent. The Combine had zeroed its position. EDQ attempted to move, but found itself stuck. EDQ's combat protocols stated damage to right track. The high level functions overruled and stated soft ground from nuclear detonations. This back-and-forth thought process continued until the howitzer shells detonated above and on top of EDQ's chassis. A final burst of information, incoherent data, was recorded by the black box recovered.

Cyberneticists termed the last entry of jumbled characters a "digital scream", and the recent publicisation of this has led to renewed calls from ethical groups as to whether cybertanks can be considered living and should be afforded the same rights as humans. These findings were later incorporated into doctrinal and tactical publications by both Paneurope and Combine militaries, cautioning troops to be wary of the "psychological considerations" in the employment of hyperintelligent cybertanks.

Initial manuals were published with the limited information available on latest cybernetic architectures combined with human psychology, however a new field has since sprung up after the fielding of self-aware systems, and new literature accompanies it. Cybernetic psychology is now a recognised science, and both the Combine and Paneurope maintain military trained and civilian educated cyber psychologists to evaluate cybertanks prior to and post combat deployments, training simulations, and regular checkups. ..."

_________________
The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


Last edited by Kattsun on July 4th, 2017, 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 23rd, 2014, 5:53 pm
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Consider the advances in firearms and especially power armor might make the distinctions between semi-auto/selective fire rifles and squad machine guns obsolete.


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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 23rd, 2014, 6:56 pm
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The vast majority of the world's armies are too poor to afford battlesuits, and typically make use of "augmented infantry", which are basically modern-day soldiers equipped with HULC-esque suits and conventional firearms (or in the case of Brazil, really, really small railguns). Only Brazil, South Africa and Nigeria can afford to have powered armour infantry out of the powers of the Global South, and only Brazil and SA are rich or small enough to use large numbers of them. Thus, light support weapons exist to provide battlesuited infantry a similar organisation and firepower to augmented infantry.

Anyway, railguns have a nasty habit of building up excess heat and the rails end up welding together if fired on automatic for too long. Light/section support weapons are much heavier, and require bulky external power and cooling systems to support their rates of fire. Infantry railguns are usually semi-automatic or burst fire limited through training (much like how modern soldiers are trained to use semi-automatic or short bursts), being air cooled. Section support weapons have active cooling typically using propylene glycol or some other liquid, and as long as they have coolant and ammunition can sustain their firing rates indefinitely.

Though with power armour, the issue isn't so much weight as it is bulk, expense, and utility. Having everyone armed with FN Minimis is feasible today, but the utility would be questionable. Ammunition (and coolant) consumption would be higher, dismounting would be significantly slower, and armourer maintenance would be more often (railguns are stupendously simple to maintain solely through field maintenance, it's the pump, hose and valve constructed coolant backpacks require a plumber), as a coolant backpack certainly offers several points of failure for an automatic weapon.

All that said though, the standalone section automatic weapon has certainly been made extinct outside of poverty-stricken (Poverty, of course, is relative. Much of Africa and South America have indigenous technological infrastructure comparable to or better than the modern day First World) areas of the world in the global South.

The difference now is mostly that making a lightweight, air cooled, sustained automatic railgun is basically impossible without carrying around bulky rails (not that it hasn't been tried) to replace the welded ones every few tens of shots.

_________________
The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 27th, 2014, 1:00 pm
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In contrast to the American mentality of "bigger is better", the Paneuropean cybertanks were rather petite, and the Fencer series exemplified the mindset of mobility versus protection.

Continual upgrades kept it up to date with the latest Combine production vehicles. The Fencer III (or C) was one of these many upgrade programs, deriving its armour and main battery from captured specimens of a destroyed Combine Mark VI. The Paneuropean counterpart possessed a much lower height and provided a smaller profile both from the front and side. This came at the cost of several areas, including protection and main gun size, but the Fencer's superior agility and operation in larger tactical units gave it the advantage in combat.

Whereas the Combine cybertanks often were tasked targets alone, or with minimal combined arms support, the Fencer III would often be operating in units of two vehicles with an attached battlesuit battalion mounted in GEVs. This afforded the European troops superior tactical flexibility, and the high missile load of the Fencer cybertank gave the unit impressive firepower. The Mark IX, the largest mass produced Combine cybertank, possessed a warload of 40 "Rattler" nuclear missiles. This was still inferior to the number of tactical weapons possessed by a detachment of Fencer IIIs, which could be as high as 60 missiles.

The Fencer series, being designed to be modular, had a varied number of weapons systems both production and experimental mounted on it. The typical Fencer C mounted the same turret as the Fencer A, eschewing the heavily armoured turret of the -B and the multiple turrets of the -B2, but included a pair of brand new 160mm cannons capable of firing nuclear shells further than any previous Paneuropean cybertank, and possessed eight 120mm secondary cannons giving it impressive barrage capability. The Fencer C incorporated a new missile, the Crotale (Rattlesnake), and increased the number of internal magazines to two. This brought the total missile load to 24, but with external launchers this could be increased to 30. Anti-personnel armament consisted of twelve 30mm railguns mounted on various points and fed by internal magazines.

The armour protection was inferior to the Mark VI, being roughly equivalent to the Combine Mark III-B or Fencer A, but the speed and maneuverability were only exceeded by the Combine Ninja cybertank. Electronics capability was also enhanced, providing a large antenna for electronic warfare equipment in the rear drive unit. Engine power was increased from previous Fencer models, the Fencer B showing a distinct lack of mobility even against the Mark V, although both the Fencer B and Fencer C were of similar mass.

The Fencer C served in various incarnations until the 2130s, when it was finally replaced by the Fencer E series. The Fencer E was the last all-European cybertank before the breakdown of the superstates in the Crash of 2138 leading up to The Final War, where both Paneurope and the Combine were destroyed.

The Fencer series cybertank has since been superseded by the Franco-German Cuirassier/Doppelsoldner, the Imperial Swedish Huscarl, and the Russian Cossack. Of the post-breakup powers, only Iceland, Gallia, the Vatican, and Italy still have Fencers in service as of 2349.

The Vatican and Gallian cybertanks (respectively the Saint Florentina and Sabel L and -P) are considered the most advanced of Fencer derivatives, both technically and chronologically. The oldest Fencer cyberbrain in service is approximately 240 years old and belongs to the Papal States, and the oldest in the world (although not mounted in a combat chassis) belongs to the Gallian Army and is said to date from the 2070s.

_________________
The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


Last edited by Kattsun on July 4th, 2017, 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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eshelon
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 29th, 2014, 8:40 am
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Kattsun wrote:
The French version is mounted on the AMX-30 main battle tank chassis and is designated the Char AMX-30 lance missiles AC 3G.

The United Kingdom version is mounted on the Vickers Defence Challenger 2 chassis, incorporating Special Armour protection, and additionally features a 15.5mm light automatic cannon as a backup weapon/ranging device. It is called the FV4036 Caernafron by the British military.

All versions feature the same elevating mast and incorporate the PARS 3 LR/AC 3G/TRIGAT missile system, as well as the Matra Mistral, Stinger/Fliegerfaust 2, and Shorts Starstreak. Export models feature downgraded electronics and integration with the Euromissile HOT 3.

The United States equivalent is the Delco Systems M153 Elevated LOSAT Launcher, featuring an eight round MGM-166 LOSAT launcher mounted on an M60 Patton chassis. This system is capable of elevating only 10 meters, but features a far more potent anti-armour system. The M153 ELL is also capable of accepting launcher magazines featuring 24 2" Mk 80 SPIKE hypervelocity rockets for anti-aircraft purposes.
Please tell me, Kattsun, this information is true (source?) or just a your fantasy :?: (This is very important for me because I am a collector of information about "giraffe tanks" -> http://eshelon.wordpress.com/2011/05/26 ... we-czolgi/)


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Judah14
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 29th, 2014, 8:49 am
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eshelon wrote:
Please tell me, Kattsun, this information is true (source?) or just a your fantasy :?: (This is very important for me because I am a collector of information about "giraffe tanks" -> http://eshelon.wordpress.com/2011/05/26 ... we-czolgi/)
Of course it is fictional (see the thread's title), but the material in your blog is most likley the inspitation for those fictional designs.


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eshelon
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 29th, 2014, 8:57 am
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Judah14 wrote:
Of course it is fictional (see the thread's title), but the material in your blog is most likley the inspitation for those fictional designs.
Are you 100% sure?
The first part of Kattsun's post about "giraffe tanks" is true.


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Judah14
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 29th, 2014, 9:01 am
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eshelon wrote:
Judah14 wrote:
Of course it is fictional (see the thread's title), but the material in your blog is most likley the inspitation for those fictional designs.
Are you 100% sure?
The first part of Kattsun's post about "giraffe tanks" is true.
The scenario is set in a fictional alternate universe setting (see the title). The real history of this vehicle is included in this fictional setting.


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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 29th, 2014, 11:15 am
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eshelon wrote:
Kattsun wrote:
The French version is mounted on the AMX-30 main battle tank chassis and is designated the Char AMX-30 lance missiles AC 3G.

The United Kingdom version is mounted on the Vickers Defence Challenger 2 chassis, incorporating Special Armour protection, and additionally features a 15.5mm light automatic cannon as a backup weapon/ranging device. It is called the FV4036 Caernafron by the British military.

All versions feature the same elevating mast and incorporate the PARS 3 LR/AC 3G/TRIGAT missile system, as well as the Matra Mistral, Stinger/Fliegerfaust 2, and Shorts Starstreak. Export models feature downgraded electronics and integration with the Euromissile HOT 3.

The United States equivalent is the Delco Systems M153 Elevated LOSAT Launcher, featuring an eight round MGM-166 LOSAT launcher mounted on an M60 Patton chassis. This system is capable of elevating only 10 meters, but features a far more potent anti-armour system. The M153 ELL is also capable of accepting launcher magazines featuring 24 2" Mk 80 SPIKE hypervelocity rockets for anti-aircraft purposes.
Please tell me, Kattsun, this information is true (source?) or just a your fantasy :?: (This is very important for me because I am a collector of information about "giraffe tanks" -> http://eshelon.wordpress.com/2011/05/26 ... we-czolgi/)


I inserted factual information only to give a sense of verisimilitude.

_________________
The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: January 29th, 2014, 5:20 pm
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Gendarmeriet ("The Gendamerie"), the federal police force primarily responsible for highway patrol and patrol duties in smaller villages and towns outside of the jurisdiction of metropolitan police, operated two types of police interceptors between 1967 and 2015: The Cadillac/General Motors Cyclone Police Interceptor, and the Ford Motor Company Interceptor XXI.

The Cyclone was the definitive automobile of the era. It featured a prominent, retracting "bubble" canopy, a large pair of radomes in the front for the RADAR crash avoidance system (this would later be upgraded to provide a method of speed trapping for highway officers), and a stylish design. Law enforcement officers often compared it to a jet plane, both in design and function, as the Cadillac V8 429 engine put out nearly 350 horsepower. This powerful engine, combined with a reinforced driveshaft and suspension, gave the Cyclone Police Interceptor a safe speed up to 240 kmh. This same automobile was trialed by various American police agencies and eventually adopted by the Texas Highway Patrol, California Highway Patrol (featuring prominently the 1970's television series "CHiPs"), and the Vermont State Police. Galla's Gendarmerie and the Peel Regional Police remained the sole non-American operators.

However, the Cadillac was not the fastest interceptor available to the Gallan highway patrol.

The Ford Interceptor 21 was a variant of the civilian Seattlite XXI, and was easily distinguished from the Cyclone by its two pairs of front-mounted wheels, and lack of radomes. The Interceptor 21 was rarer, a more dedicated pursuit vehicle than the Cyclone, and was typically used only during high[er] speed chases. The Interceptor 21 featured similar upgrades as the Cyclone: a strengthened driveshaft for high speed operations, a stiffer suspension with stronger shock absorbers, a dual exhaust system, an automatic fire suppression system, and other upgrades necessary for police duty.

The Ford vehicle was equipped with a massive V12 engine, a derivative of the 4.4 L Colombo V12 used in the then new Daytona, giving the car a peak of 420 HP. The Interceptor 21 was capable of achieving a 280 kmh top speed in tests, although in practice this was limited to 265 kmh to avoid engine damage. Unlike the Cyclone, the Interceptor 21 was widely adopted by a number of American, Canadian, and European law enforcement agencies for patrolling the Trans-European Highway Network.

Both the Cyclone and Interceptor 21 were retired in 2014-15 by the gendarmerie in favour of the Covini Engineering C6W Police Interceptor. The General Motors Ultralight LEV took the role of patrol car for both the metropolitan and national police forces.

The Ultralight had previously been adopted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation and various law enforcement agencies in Europe and Galla in the early 1990s as a result of the Gulf War and the subsequent 1990s energy crisis.

_________________
The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


Last edited by Kattsun on July 4th, 2017, 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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