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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: March 19th, 2014, 2:05 pm
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ISINGLASS was the actual SR-71 replacement.

XLR-129 was almost used for the Space Shuttle.

The actual aircraft was going to be launched from a B-52 though, carried underwing. There were proposals to drop it out the back of a C-5 or C-141, but they were considered silly. No one seriously considered strapping it to a Titan booster since it would resemble a very maneuverable, emitting reentry vehicle trying to jam the ABM radar looking at it.

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


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Raven
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: March 19th, 2014, 8:24 pm
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You might want tgo look into this as well...
https://www.fas.org/irp/mystery/aurora.htm

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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: March 19th, 2014, 8:29 pm
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>60 km
>Mach 4

Please.

ISINGLASS would make Aurora mythmobile its bitch.

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


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Judah14
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: March 20th, 2014, 2:43 am
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Kattsun wrote:
ISINGLASS was the actual SR-71 replacement.

XLR-129 was almost used for the Space Shuttle.

The actual aircraft was going to be launched from a B-52 though, carried underwing. There were proposals to drop it out the back of a C-5 or C-141, but they were considered silly. No one seriously considered strapping it to a Titan booster since it would resemble a very maneuverable, emitting reentry vehicle trying to jam the ABM radar looking at it.
Based on a quick Google search the actual appearance of the Isinglass design is classified, but it has been described to look like a scaled-down Space Shuttle. So this is your own design to fit that same role?


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Rusel
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: March 20th, 2014, 5:53 am
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and over at NASA
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index. ... c=18261.45


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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: March 20th, 2014, 6:08 pm
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Judah14 wrote:
Kattsun wrote:
ISINGLASS was the actual SR-71 replacement.

XLR-129 was almost used for the Space Shuttle.

The actual aircraft was going to be launched from a B-52 though, carried underwing. There were proposals to drop it out the back of a C-5 or C-141, but they were considered silly. No one seriously considered strapping it to a Titan booster since it would resemble a very maneuverable, emitting reentry vehicle trying to jam the ABM radar looking at it.
Based on a quick Google search the actual appearance of the Isinglass design is classified, but it has been described to look like a scaled-down Space Shuttle. So this is your own design to fit that same role?
It's based on the wind tunnel/desk model of ISINGLASS produced by McDonnell Douglas in 1966-67 when it was being studied, and some of the material produced (like the simulations re: nuclear SA-2 and ABM-X).

It's not classified, the Wikipedia article hasn't been updated in a few years. It was just never really hammered out since the ISINGLASS study was just a study that was a year long funded out of discretionary budget of the CIA. It was never going to produce anything concrete without USAF support, which never materialised because having a Mach 20 rocket plane fly over the USSR after being vomited out of a bomber looks an awful lot like a potential decapitation strike.

Outside of working on how to make a Mach 20 spaceplane with the most advanced cameras in the world for "cheap", McDD toyed with a few shapes for ISINGLASS, but most of them resembled future attempts at hypersonic aircraft such as the GIUK Gap naval interceptor (Mach 6, LNG fueled) and HSVS Strike/Reconnaissance Mach 12 hypersonic (to be powered by two XLR-129s and scramjet engines).

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: April 2nd, 2014, 3:50 pm
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[ img ]

The Sparrow family has a long history within NATO armies, beginning as a post-war American development alongside the Sidewinder. As of 2014, it remains the primary BVRAAM of NATO air forces, in various guises. The simplicity and ease of construction has made the AIM-7 family the most mass produced, widely used air-to-air missile in the Free World, comparable to the Soviet R-27 used by the USSR and Warsaw Pact states. The most modern variant: the Sparrow V or AIM-7V is used by the United States of America, Kingdom of Sweden, Kingdom of Norway, Britain, West Germany, Republic of Poland, Republic of Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Principality of Galla, Republic of Spain, Portugal, and the United Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Variants of the Sparrow have been used or developed into indigenous platforms by non-NATO countries such as the South African Union, Australia and New Zealand, Japan, Republic of Korea, Malaysia, Kampuchea, North Borneo, Burma, Malaysia, and Qatar, among others. The most common NATO variant is the British Aerospace Skyflash, which started out as a development of the AIM-7E-2 Sparrow developed during the Vietnam War. Changes included a new European rocket motor, a GEC-Marconi radar seeker, and a larger warhead. Further developments in the 1980s resulted in the Skyflash Mark 2, an improved variant incorporating an active radar seeker and 40 lbs continuous rod warhead (CRW). The Skyflash Mark 2 was adopted by the Principality of Galla as the RBS 81 and by the Kingdom of Sweden as the RB 71B.

The most recent Skyflash variant: Mark 4 is currently used by the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm, Swedish Royal Air Force, Royal Gallan Navy, the Luftwaffe, the French Armee de l'Air and Aeronavale, and the Dutch Royal Air Force. It was developed in the early 1990s alongside the European Fighter Aircraft (later, Typhoon). It combines the Thomson-CSF and Marconi electronics of the Mark 2 with a new rocket motor and ramjet sustainer engine, providing an increase in range approximately twice that of conventional missiles, in the same class as the US Navy AIM-54 Phoenix.

The American AMRAAM program began in the 1980s to find a successor to the Sparrow for the Advanced Tactical Fighter (later, F-22), resulting in the AIM-7V Sparrow V. It features a triangular, bank-to-turn lifting body airframe and flush, variable inlets providing greater maneuverability over other ramjet-sustained BVRAAMs like the Skyflash Mark 4. Very little, besides the dimensions, remain common with the AIM-7. It is currently the most advanced air-to-air missile fielded today.

AIM-7R was developed in the 1990s as an interim upgrade until fielding of the AMRAAM missile, which would become AIM-7V. It incorporates the same body and electronics as AIM-7P Block II, but adds a Hughes infrared seeker assembly and Texas Instruments active radar seeker in the nose, making it a dual mode system capable of engaging all targets. The dual mode seeker was considered for AIM-7V, but the high cost of the -R led to it being rescinded from the AMRAAM requirement in 1995. Only 150 missiles of AIM-7R were manufactured, and all have been removed from service with the introduction of the Sparrow V.

Other variants of the AIM-7 have included the Brazo*/ERASER (Electromagnetic RAdiation Source EliminatoR), an air-to-air or air-to-ground anti-radiation missile (ARM). Brazo, designed to kill airborne radar emitters, suffered from an extremely short range of only 30 miles. It was never adopted by the US Navy but saw service with smaller European air forces. ERASER, an air-to-ground variant, was designed along similar lines to the British ALARM but featured two rocket motors as opposed to a restartable one. Designed to provide a more persistent deterrent against SAMs, it is lofted to a high altitude and begins searching for emitters, which when located are engaged by the WDU-27 blast-fragmentation warhead. If the radar shuts down, the missile deploys a parachute to begin loitering and waiting for a new target, which is then engaged by the second engine firing.

ERASER A-G was adopted by the US Navy and US Air Force in 1979 as the AGM-85. It was superseded in service by the AGM-88 beginning in 1985. ERASER saw use in Operation Desert Storm and Operation Noble Anvil, where it destroyed numerous Soviet-built Iraqi and Serbian radar systems.

ERASER A-A never received a numerical designation, but served as an interim weapon until the full deployment of the F-X and AIM-97 "Seekbat" weapon system. It was used judiciously during Desert Storm against Iraqi MiG-25s, where it accounted for nine aerial victories with ten confirmed launches. ERASER validated the concept of an air-to-air anti-radiation missile, although Seekbat integrated a terminal infrared seeker and midcourse update system in addition to the anti-radiation function. In Desert Storm, the Seekbat missile and USAF F-15A MIGCAPs accounted for about 76 air-to-air kills, or approximately 45% of Iraqi aircraft shot down during the war.

*Spanish: "Arm". A lingual pun based on the English acronym for "anti-radiation missile".

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


Last edited by Kattsun on July 4th, 2017, 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: April 4th, 2014, 12:51 pm
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[ img ]

This is not an F-22.

No sir.

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


Last edited by Kattsun on July 4th, 2017, 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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apdsmith
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: April 4th, 2014, 5:19 pm
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Hi Kattsun,

Wouldn't a stealthy plane have the armaments carried in internal bays? I thought I'd read somewhere that the external weapons (to be truthful, I don't know if it's the weapons themselves or the hardpoints for them) compromised the low-observable feng shui?

Unless, of course, that's for illustrative purposes only, in which case apologies for wasting your time ;)

Ad

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NSWE: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5695


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Kattsun
Post subject: Re: What could have been?Posted: April 5th, 2014, 1:12 am
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Internal weapons bays are not necessary for RCS reduction measures. JAS 24A is a knockoff of ATF because USians are too protectionist to export F-22, and the only external bays it has are FAST packs which I can't be arsed to draw. It uses the same external, semi-conformal hardpoints as F-15A/C/E, with an additional outer hardpoint for up to 500 kg of equipment. That is typically used for more Sparrows, or AGM-88E.

It's basically a very highly modified F-15E, which was proposed as an alternative to ATF before someone found out that it would be about as expensive as ATF.

[ img ]

I'll draw different loads, this is just the typical CAP load.

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.


Last edited by Kattsun on July 4th, 2017, 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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