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sebu
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 16th, 2019, 8:19 pm
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Well, a bit more detailed Manned-Mission-to Mars-concept: (schematic, of course...)
[ img ]

4+2 to go, 2+1 to land. 4 humans ( a finn, swede, canadian and a japanese) and 2 robots.

Few marks:
* Main propulsion is a solid-core nuclear thermal w. liquid hydrogen propellant
* Gravity wheel should be able to 0,4g with 7rpm
* It contains 4t of oxygene (+spares), 3t of food (+greenhouse production) and 12t of water (+spares)

Solutions for hazards of space travel:
* Radiation --> water insulated gravity wheel + access tube for solar flare occasions
* Weightlessness --> gravity wheel
* Psychological effects --> own cabins
* Social effects --> own cabins and sauna :)


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Hood
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 17th, 2019, 9:09 am
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The first spaceship with a sauna! I like it!
The only question is, where does all the water come from for 2 bathrooms and a sauna?

I love your space drawings, the cross sections and great and everything looks realistically designed.

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sebu
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 17th, 2019, 10:12 am
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Thanks Hood. If there is a finn, there should be a sauna :) and I'm quite sure that the saunaday will be liked by others too. But to be honest, I have no idea how would it work in this environment...
There are water stores in the gravity wheel; total of 12 tons and below and under those areas are water recycling appliances. Though, I'm not sure if 12t of water is enough for drinking, washing and greenhouse :?:


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eswube
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 17th, 2019, 7:54 pm
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Wow! This thread gets only better and better! :D

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sebu
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 18th, 2019, 4:03 pm
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Thanks eswube. You did like the sauna-idea, didn't you? :) I appreciate you (& Sir Hood) are following this thread. The goal is not always so important; the journey is...

A statement:
None of these ideas nor designs (credited) are totally my own. I've collected those from several sources and made them to match in this community (SB-scale) Also, I've added some of my own views. I am a kitbasher and I'm proud of it!


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Shipright
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 18th, 2019, 5:46 pm
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I only say this because you are obviously are going for realistic detail, otherwise It’s just nitpicking, but solar panels (or maybe radiators?) are well outside the NSTRs shadow and will backskatter radiation onto the rest of the ship. I’d also say your propellant stores should be at least a few times bigger. And I’d those rear panels are solar panels instead of radiators, you need a dozen times more radiator surface area.

Agian, I am nitpicking. As always I really appreciate your art style.


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sebu
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 18th, 2019, 6:40 pm
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Shipright wrote: *
I only say this because you are obviously are going for realistic detail, otherwise It’s just nitpicking, but solar panels (or maybe radiators?) are well outside the NSTRs shadow and will backskatter radiation onto the rest of the ship. I’d also say your propellant stores should be at least a few times bigger. And I’d those rear panels are solar panels instead of radiators, you need a dozen times more radiator surface area.

Agian, I am nitpicking. As always I really appreciate your art style.
Thanks Shipright. I really am searching for realistic solution for Manned Mars Mission, so I'm pleased of your remarks.
Those blue ones are solar panels and brown are radiators. Maybe there could be radiators in gravity wheel? (not visible...) How could I calculate radiator need?

Now; I've to admit I don't know the terms/meaning of "NSTRs shadow" or "backskatter radiation" (in Finnish, please :) )
Propellants are also my weak point. There are appr. 100 m3 of Liquid Hydrogen for the main engine, 8 m3 for orbit braking and little bit for others...
I don't know, how to calculate the real volumes

But, as I said: the journey is important. :)


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Shipright
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 18th, 2019, 7:10 pm
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sebu wrote: *
Thanks Shipright. I really am searching for realistic solution for Manned Mars Mission, so I'm pleased of your remarks.
Those blue ones are solar panels and brown are radiators. Maybe there could be radiators in gravity wheel? (not visible...) How could I calculate radiator need?
You can certainly have the outside facing hull of the ring act as radiators, but probably not for much more than removing the waste heat from the habitual ring itself. The radiation calculations are simply a matter of figuring out how much waste heat you need to get rid of, and what operating the temperature and surface area of radiators you have installed.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/r ... design.php

Radiators info is near the bottom of that link
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Now; I've to admit I don't know the terms/meaning of "NSTRs shadow" or "backskatter radiation" (in Finnish, please :) )
NSTR is just a nuclear solid core thermal rocket, like what you have on this design. Being nuclear the core emits radiation like any other reactor, and the crew and any part of the vessel not hardened against radiation needs to be protected.

So you need to have a shield between the engine and the ship that provides a radiation free "shaddow". To be effective these shields need to made out of massive materials, so the smaller the better. Once you have this shadow cast, everything needs to fit into it. Even a hardened but outside of it will reflect radiation around the shield.

You can get more shadow for you shield kilogram by having the engine far away from the rest of the ship. This means you get more shaded area for the same size shield, or because radiation strength falls off with distance, you don't need as thick of a shield.

[ img ]

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/r ... iation.php
Quote:
Propellants are also my weak point. There are appr. 100 m3 of Liquid Hydrogen for the main engine, 8 m3 for orbit braking and little bit for others...
I don't know, how to calculate the real volumes
The first link above talks about propellant volume. You can get lost in the math rabbit hole quickly, so I generally just use a general ratio of 1/2 to 2/3 internal volume dedicated to propellant tankage.
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But, as I said: the journey is important. :)
I love this stuff. The real world engineering can lead you into some very unexpected places.


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eswube
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 18th, 2019, 8:56 pm
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@Sebu
Well, sauna was certainly a very nice touch. :D
And I also like that "tradition" of sending hidden messages by the Tiny Astronauts. :)

Btw. in purely theoretical terms, it would be really interesting to see some of Your projects in FD scale (but I don't really encourage You to try - probably it would be a horribly time-and-effort consuming thing to do)

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sebu
Post subject: Re: SUSAPosted: January 20th, 2019, 8:09 am
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@ Shipright
Thanks for the comments and links. A lot of new information but also "new problems." ;) I mean, there are much math etc.
I agree of "getting lost in the math rabbit hole". Especially, when my driver is intuition... But the journey goes on.

@eswube
Yeah, FD scale might be nice, but I'm not able to do it. I'm not competent for it as You are... But, perhaps some day :?:
Glad, You discovered the message of the astronauts :)


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