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ezgo394
Post subject: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: February 29th, 2016, 10:50 am
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Hello!

This is a recent creation of a long lasting project of mine that's been going on for the past 5 years, with the dim hope that it will one day become a low budget movie or book series that is much better than Star Wars or Star Trek. The overall setting has changed numerous times, but I've finally started to get a handle on something that I really like (and with a good blend of Space Opera and Ultra Realism). This is mainly thanks to Winchell Chung, over at Atomic Rockets, and Timothy_C for posting the link in one of APDAF's old threads. So, after making a major setting change, I've started to make some headway with it (the change was basically switching ship design from belly-landers to tail-landers, which is much more realistic and interesting).

First up, before the drawing, is the setting. If you're just looking for the drawing, it's a little further down.

SETTING: This whole story takes place 4400 years from now. It postulates a Collapse of Technology in the early 2400s. The whole idea and assumption of this future event comes from the current trend of computers replacing humans even with simple tasks. Eventually, it is assumed that technology will become all encompassing, required in every walk of life and will ultimately be destroyed by one cataclysmic event. I don't know what the event is, but I'm thinking of a massive solar flare that pumps out EMPs for weeks on end, not only destroying devices that are not protected, but also those devices that have been brought out after the initial wave of destruction in an ill assumption that the EMP has stopped already.
Anyways, 2400s, Collapse of Technology, brings us down to Barbarism. Because these advanced humans cannot function without this crippled technology, they revert to their primal ways, creating tribes and groups for survival and resource gathering. After the initial collapse, widespread looting, and several generations, things calm down. Groups start to band together into larger factions, claiming territories and creating new boundaries and 'nations'. This stage lasts for about 250 years. Starting in the mid-2600s, the first large scale governments pop up. Thanks to old history and information in books (what are books?) found in unlooted libraries, society starts to build itself back up. Since a large amount of people are still located in their general territories, boundaries that mimic the old are created, bringing back countries that we recognize today. Some influenced by the history that they read or some from the vote of the people. From the ashes reborn, a fire starts anew, the Third Industrial Revolution. Since the shift to alternative energy before the CoT removed a lot of the need for coal, there are still significant reserves to help the process along. Give it several hundred years and we reach a society/technology level similar to that of the early 1900s. Equipped with both with old information and new innovations, analog computers are built to perform most basic of calculations. But for some reason or another, it's not written in the books, digital computers were... skipped over. This is the main element of the setting and was inspired by what I read at Atomic Rockets (and Frank Herbert's Dune). There are no digital computers. The only computation devices are analog, and thus limited in their scope, which then requires manual computations using slide rules and the human brain to get an answer.
I forgot to put this tidbit in there, but year 0 is 1781, when James Watt, the father of modern engines, patented his steam engine which converted linear to rotary motion. PW is 'Post-Watt'

Fast forward to the age of rockets, a little while later. The first need for man in space came from the simple desire for accurate weather reports as well as communication relays. Of course, you need to remember that these stations need to be manned, as there are no 'computers' to make things easy. Exactly as you'd expect, there's a Space Race, culminating in a later landing on the moon, but unlike the unfortunate ending of the real space race, it doesn't stop at the moon. Countries are scrambling to get farther out, reach more planets, moons, asteroids. Asteroid mining becomes a common thing, and eventually colonies start to spring up on Luna, Mars, many of the other planetary satellites, and so on. If you can see the trend, you'll notice that 1) with settlement of colonies and the introduction of mining, this whole thing becomes a large interplanetary trade network, and 2) that transit times will decrease and then the desire to go to other systems will enter into the common mans thoughts, as it is now at their fingertips.

Before I get to that, in this time, through countless experiments that ended well, bad, or just horribly, a common drive system was chosen:
Quote:
Sub-Light Drives (normal space):

Sub-Light Drives are used to move a ship within a solar system or around a celestial body.
Typical Speeds for a ship (efficiently) using Sub-Light Drives range from 0.012 Speed of Light to 0.015SoL, with the maximum (efficient)speed typically being 0.020SoL. Put simply, if you were to travel from Earth's Orbit to Neptune's Orbit, so that the Slip Drive could be activated, it would take you about 15 days at 0.015SoL. Sub-Light Drives are almost universally powered by Helium3-Deuterium Fusion Rockets, which produces an exhaust of Hydrogen.

Deuterium-Tritium fuel/drives are used for surface-to-orbit craft, due to it's high thrust and low weight. Most ships are equipped with dual mode rockets that fuse both D-T and He3-D. D-T drives are not heavy, compared to the He3-D drives.
Now, for a little blurb on what is commonly referred to as an FTL Drive, which in this setting is called a Slip Drive. This came about a thousand or so years later. Before the FTL, generation ships were the main form of reaching a system far away.
Quote:
Faster-Than-Light Drive:
Known officially as the Messerschmitt/Fleischmann/Starritt Trans-Dimensional Slipspace Drive, or more commonly known as a TDS Drive or Slip Drive. The Slip Drive was created in PW2472 (4253 CE) by a group of German engineers and improved upon by an Irish scientist. It is likely the single most important item ever created in human history, allowing humans to travel to the far reaches of the Milky-Way Galaxy. It works by plotting a course from a present destination to an intended destination and inputting it into the drive. Upon activation, the drive will slip outside of realspace and move the ship to it's destination, where it then slips back into realspace.

Despite it's importance, it does have limitations and drawbacks. It requires a large amount of energy to be generated by the ship and stored in capacitor banks (which will then charge the SlipDrive to the peak energy levels required to break into Slipspace). The course cannot be changed once the drive is engaged, although it can be stopped, forcing you out of SlipSpace. However, this will mean that the capacitor banks need to be recharged. The large amounts of energy used to peak the drive and the transfer into slipspace has a tendency to cause extreme nausea (which will induce vomiting) and create hallucinations. The nausea can be circumvented by wearing a patch or taking a pill before engaging the drive. The final, and perhaps the most limiting factor is it's extreme sensitivity to gravity wells, particularly those of a system's star, which means that in order to engage the Slip Drive, a ship may need to be as far out as Neptune's orbit, or further.
The Slip Drives tend to be maintenance hogs. Re-alignment of the magnetic coils has to be performed often, sometimes after every trip, and major maintenance (replacement of most major parts) must be performed every year (380 days) of slipspace time. There are also consumables that must be replenished before every activation. These include a primer (used to start the opening into Slipspace) and a small amount of reaction mass (which is used to sustain presence in slip space).
The Slip Drive needs to be located in area of the Center of Mass of the ship.

Typical speeds of the TDS Drive can reach close to 0.85 lightyear per hour, meaning that it would take almost 14 years to cross the Galaxy (assuming you could continuously generate the energy to stay in Slipspace).

SlipSpace tends to be rather consistent, aside from the variance in arrival times, which can vary from +/- 5% to 15%. While in slipspace, you cannot determine what stage of the trip you are at or when the drive will disengage and translate into realspace. Before the drive is activated, the navigator will make a series of calculations based on the speed of the drive to determine a estimate of when the ship will exit slipspace (using the exact calculated speed as a reference of 100%, and then do calculations of durations for 95% and 115% of nominal time). Slipspace is in tune with realspace, so time does not speed up or slow down.

Although outerspace is friction-less, slipspace is unique in that it is not entirely frictionless. Being a different, undefined dimension, it is unknown what causes slipspace to have friction, but it does require that ship designs be sleek and smooth, so as to allow for a faster speed. Ships do not have to be sleek and streamlined, rather employing sharp edges and features (that no doubt ease construction) but this can cut into the speed in which you travel through slipspace by up to 40%.

The early drives were very expensive and required many materials that were extremely rare on Earth and other planets of Sol. Fortunately, as explorations ships made headway in exploring new systems, new and sustainable materials were found and used.
The one thing that keeps the price high on SlipSpace Drives is the usage of a metal in an alloy that is instrumental in creating the opening in slipspace. Despite constant searching, there are only 4 recorded planets that have that metal in major quantities, making it an important planet. This is why many SS drives are reused and rebuilt, becasue new ones are much more expensive than refurbishment. It's not uncommon to find a new ship with a 400 year old SS drive, but then again, it's not uncommon for ships to stay in service for centuries.
And like all horribly expensive things, there are devices that are less expensive and perform the same task... Kind of.
Quote:
Faster-Than-Light Drive - SlipGates:
Slipgates are fixed point locations that allow non-SSD ships to travel faster than light.
Ships are equipped with SlipGate recievers, which allow the SlipGate to lock on to the ship, translate it into SlipSpace and send it along the route to its destination, where it is then translated out of SlipSpace. If a SlipGate malfunctions, the reciever will automatically translate the ship out of Slipspace, and when this happens the still functioning SlipGate receives a warning and a probable location for rescue ships to jump to, however malfunctions are rare.
The Slipgates do have a toll, but for Liners and other ships that travel common routes, it's less expensive than upkeeping ship based SSDs. It is not uncommon for large ships to have SSDs and SGRs, which actually can be more beneficial by running dual-mode.
The size of the gates tend to limit ship design, which can make ships very narrow and slender, but long, as the only limit is structural design. Antennae, radiators, and other protrusions are often extendable and pulled in for slipgate transfer.

SlipGates tend to average a speed of 0.74ly/h
Both of these are still being worked on, but the general configuration will stay the same.

Now that we have a finicky FTL drive, now it's time for the FTL radio, right? Nope!
Quote:
Faster-Than-Light Communication:
Put simply, there is no FTL 'radio'. All FTL communication is done by using specially built, high speed Courier ships. These ships are equipped with the fastest Slip Drives that are available which minimize arrival variances and wait times. The fastest recorded courier ship, the Electra, made a run at an astonishing 1.214ly/h.

Courier ships tend to be reserved for Sovereign Entities, for transporting classified information, orders, plans, and even diplomats if need be.
For general communication between people, traditional Mail Ships or Passenger Liners are used.
Now we've got a general scope of the technology in the setting, right? Good. Let's move on to the actual setting of the story. 4700 years from 1781.
Quote:
Setting, Place: Milky Way Galaxy. Over 13% of the galaxy has been explored, to each end, although most action takes place around 1,000ly from Earth. Earth is considered the cradle of human civilization and is the de facto center of civilization.

There are 2,300 planets that have been discovered, explored, and colonised. Of those, just over 100 have become large, industrialized worlds. Many worlds, even colonies, are Balkanized, with multiple nation-states populating the surface.
The average population across the 2,300 inhabited planets is about 700,000 people per planet. In reality, though, most industrialized worlds will have populations approaching 10-15 billion, while colonies, territories, and other inhabited planets will range from as low as a sustainable 1,000 up to a median of 10-15 million.
In total, there are an estimated 1.638 Trillion (1,638 Billion) people in the Milky Way Galaxy. This number is not limited to planets, but also the population of humans living on asteroids, planetoids, deep space stations, etc.

In many outlying colonial worlds, it is often difficult to get hands on petroleum fuels, like oil, diesel, and gasoline. The inability to obtain these resources mean that a lot of work is done with beast of burden, such as oxen, horses, and others. When there are enough sustainable trees, then steam power is often used, especially for railroads and sometimes trucks. When fuel can be, or is availble in limited supply, then it is often limited to the govt, upper class members, or large industrial processes. So it is not uncommon to see a mix of steam power, internal combustion engines, and animals doing work.
Note: My reason for choosing the Customary Units for the main measurements of the setting probably come from my eccentricity and hatred of the Metric system, but I think the history makes some good reasoning of it.
Quote:
Standard measurements are Imperial Units. The metric system died out after the Collapse of Technology, as the metric system did not have any merit to the rebuilding colonies as it was arbitrary and only based on scientific calculations, whereas Imperial units had a history and a specific meaning and usage for each unit. Major units are in continued use (foot, yard, furlong, mile, league, etc). Leagues are commonly used in close range starship operations. Many of the older units of measurement were found in old books, sourced from un-looted libraries.

Time is still measured as it was before the CoT, using Seconds, Minutes, Hours, Weeks, Months, Years. As Earth is the centric of all basis of measurements, seconds, minutes, and oftentimes hours are used/retained throughout the the galaxy. Every ship is equipped with an Imperial Chronometer to keep track of time. The Imperial Chronometers are kept in sync with the Imperial Homeworld (Earth).

Languages vary throughout the human colonies. The most common recognized language is German and English. Germany, America, and the United Kingdom were at the forefront of shipbuilding and subsequently sent many exploratory missions and colony ships. Chinese and other Asiatic languages are also common, due to their extents of colonization.
Now, this is something that came from Star Wars. Seeing Luke Skywalker in the healing tank gave me the inspiration for this idea. So, if you have trouble imagining what this is, imagine that.
Quote:
Genetic engineering is not widespread, although it is practiced in some science and medical disciplines. It is especially prevalent in the creation of Vat-Grown people.
From an embryo, placed in a tank, a VGP is subject to either of two growth rates. They can grow from an embryo to about 13-14yrs of age in either one month or one year. Choosing an accelerated rate has a higher probability of a defect occurring, but is more economical. After the first month or year of growth, they are subject to in-situ training, which takes place electrically. Their basic instinct and knowledge is sent to them during their first stage of growth and the second stage will focus on any skills that a buyer/client wants. In this stage, the VGP will grow to an age of 15-19yrs, depending on the requirements. Once they are finished with the second stage, they are 'animated' and their eyes opened for the first time. Interestingly, it is recommended that the buyer/client, or whoever is to be the center focus for the VGP, be present when they animate, as this establishes a bond and a fierce loyalty. Creating a person from a Vat is extremely expensive, however it is not uncommon for a client to be dissatisfied with the final product and rejecting it (which generally happens just before they're animated). Generally, they will get a credit towards their next and the lab will try again, but that still leaves the issue of a person floating in the vat. The lab will either animate without an impressionable figure (which will make them feel empty and lonely, and will often lead to severe depression), or will look for a proper client to take them for a reduced price.
It is important to mention that Vat-Grown People are not treated like regular people. Instead they are treated like minorities and often as slaves (even in societies that do not allow slavery). They can be bought and often do not have rights, their rights are basically at the discretion of their master/owner/buyer.
For rejects that have no client/buyer, they are taken out of the tank and sent to a designated area where services, housing, and job opportunities are provided for them. There, anyone can recruit them or gain ownership of them (if they so desire. Ownership gives them rights and a better social status).
Vat Grown people are just like normal people in every way, except for some quirks that can make them easily identifiable. These include general eccentricities in their personalities, extreme loyalty and devotion to both their owner (original) as well as their trained task. They tend to be bi-polar as well, either being very happy or depressed. Before leaving the lab, each VGP is tattooed with a number and a symbol. The number indicates the listed lab from which they are from, and the symbol indicates they are vat-grown. These can be located in a multitude of places, depending on which lab they came from, but typically it is located in a discreet place, such as behind their left ear being the most common. Some have it on the back of their neck (easily visible), on their feet (usually around the ankle), or on the inside of their left hand pointer finger.

Vat grown people are often created for all kinds of fields, but are well known in high hazard fields, like mining, shipbuilding, and military grunts. When ordered in bulk, VGP will cost less as a single, or a small set of, patterns will be used for growing them.
--
Vat-Grown people are not considered to be of a high social status by most people, being grown artificially. Unless they are owned by a person, they are rarely, if ever, allowed status as a normal human being. This means that VGP often cannot own houses, vote, or have the same rights as normal humans. VGP on populated planets typically live in government designated areas, which are basically walled cities, where the VGP essentially run their own life with limited assistance from outside. In some rare cases, a moon or planet may be turned over to vat grown people to live freely.

In space, the same stigma is lesser known, as VGP that have made a life in space working on a ship are considered to be more respected than their land bound peers.
Annnd that's pretty much what I have available to share. I've got more going on, but this is the part that is good enough to share. I probably didn't need to share it alongside the ship, but it'd be nice to see what y'all think of it.

tl;dr SPAAAAAAAACE!!!

______________________________

Now for the drawing. But first some information!

The SS Appollo originally started life as a scientific and exploration ship. She was built between 4633 and 4638 at the Magella Shipyards on Earth. Upon completion, Appollo was commissioned in 4641 under the ownership of Lansdau & Orellana Exploration Charters. Appollo served for 64 years with L&O, exploring over 21 virgin planets. In 4705, after L&O's bankruptcy, the ship was bought by multi-billionaire Sidney Masterson to be transformed into a yacht. Unfortunately, after buying the ship, Masterson became disabled, never starting the refit process. For 8 years, Appollo stand at the Anqing Starport on Leica III until Masterson's death. In 4713, a young man by the name of Otto Goebels bought the ship at the estate sale for next to nothing and began the process of fixing it up and equipping it for planetary survey. In 4714, the ship launched to the heavens once more.

The primary mission outline of the ship is to survey planets that have been determined as suitable for colonization. As typical, a month or so of transit is required to reach the destination planet. These survey trips will require several days of orbit first, to take pictures and determine where to land, after which the ship will land. From there, it's several weeks to a couple of months on the ground, to take measurements, samples, and lay out plats. Monuments will be placed and surveys will be created to be sent back home. Along with all of this samples of vegetation, soil, etc. will be gathered and tested.

Now, here's the drawing (finally!)

[ img ]
I blended it between the two ships on the top of this page.

The general information that I have so far (I'm still calculating all of this out, with Atomic Rockets as my guide):
Volume: 20269.482044702 m3
Density: 0.25 tonnes/m3
Mass: 5067 tonnes

Structural Mass: 456.1998428272193 tonnes
Structural Volume: 262.48552521704215 m3
Fuel Mass: 2533.0999214136095 tonnes
Fuel Volume: 2747.3968778889475 m3
Total Mass: 5066.199842827219 tonnes
Hull Thickness: 0.02728385829172531 m

The primary thing I'm still... figuring out is the amount of remass that I need, which depends on mission duration, and a bunch of other factors. I will fudge the numbers, as I did say at the beginning that I'm looking for a blend of Space Opera and Ultra-Realism, but I'd like to still follow most of the rules.

The expected crew complement is to be no more than 22 normally, although 28 can be had (if the officers are willing to share their cabins).

There are 15 decks. The decks are al drawn out on the left side of the image. In order to associate them with the ship, picture them 90* clockwise. The 'top' is the same as the 'right' side of the rocket.
Nose - The nose contains the RADAR and primary communications equipment. The entire nose is hinged, and folds away to reveal the ship's docking collar and airlock.
PL - This area has 2 EVA suits, 2 bunks for resting crew, a small kitchenette, and a ladder that goes up the airlock.
Nav - Navigator's Station. Contains all of the Navigator's equipment. Chart table, 4 Computers, and the astrodomes. Also included in this area is the Watch station, which includes a small radar display, a communications set, and other essential items for watch keepers.
Sys - Systems Engineer's main station. Contains all the equipment required to run the ship. Flight, engine, thermal, Communications, Sensors, etc. Also includes the remainder of the flight computers.
G1 & G2 - General Commons Areas for Crew.
A1 - Officer's Berthings (12 bunks total)
A2 - Crew's Berthings (16 bunks total)
KMS - Kitchen Mess and cold Storage. Mess hall is large enough for 16 people.
ADM LAB - Ship's Office, Laboratory areas, and Medical center.
STO - Storage area for food items, personal items, etc. Equipped with a crane on the port side.
CELSS - The Closed Ecological Life Support System. Two systems for redundancy.
C1, C2, C3 - C1 is for smallest cargo and crated EVA suits. Also shares space with the airlock and 4 ready suits. C2 is complimentary to C3, but has more room. C3 contains the man-basket, lifting cradles, and the crane/winch itself. All three decks are accessed by an elevator
ENG - FTL controls, access to systems, Main Engineering station.

There is an elevator in the center, with stairs/ladders right beside it. The yellow that you see is cabling, for communications, etc. The elevator rides on multiple sets of gears running on a rack that goes the whole length of the tube. This is quite noisy (due to gear growl) but does not rely on hydraulics or a cable that can be snapped under sudden high-G loads. As well, with gear sets and motors in each corner, the system has multiple redundancies.

Radiators are still being worked on. They will likely be put into the landing legs. Molybdenum-Lithium Heat Pipe channeled through 4 radiators.

It's still a WIP, but I'd like to get a general opinion before I make the final hurdle and finish it.

Thoughts, Comments, Ideas?

And scene!

-EZ

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Salide - Denton - Texas - Rio Grande

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


Last edited by ezgo394 on March 4th, 2016, 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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APDAF
Post subject: Re: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: February 29th, 2016, 11:52 am
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Well... that is a long and interesting read but good work!

I get a SLA vibe with the vatgrown people and a Fireball XL-5 vibe with the ship


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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: March 4th, 2016, 1:39 am
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Thanks APDAF. I kind of expected some more feedback, but oh well.

Here are my current calculations, with information taken from Atomic Rockets and from this online calculator
Quote:
VOLUME
Cylinder1: 30ft x 119ft; 9.144m x 36.2712m
Cylinder2: 34ft x 85ft; 10.3632m x 26.5176m
Cone: 30ft x 45ft; 9.144m x 13.716m
Cylinder1: 2381.9039257330146m3
Cylinder2: 2236.7212102597646m3
Cone: 300.23999063861527m3

Total Volume: 4918.85 m3 not incl external tanks
H: 76.2
W: 9.5

Estimated Density 0.25t/m3 = 1229 tonnes rocket mass

-----
ENGINE

Low-High Fusion Rocket
Low-Gear
Total Figures
Deuterium-Tritium
Velocity - 22,000 m/s
Thrust - 42,000,000 N
High-Gear
Helium3-Deuterium
Velocity - 7,840,000 m/s
Thrust - 118,000 N

Engine mass is 80,000kg

Engine Calculator Results
Engine Mass: 80,000kg
dV: 8613120.34315798
Mass Ratio: 3
Engine Mass (w/ Fuel): 320 tonnes
Max Speed: 0.014365138470491444
Engine Idle Power Production (MW): 162.27180527383368

The engine requires 240 tons of fuel as per this calculator
At 2.6g the engine produces 1328 tonnes of lift. This is acceptable
2.6g is the estimated amount of force needed to escape a planet with 2g gravity. The max payload is now 1328.

-----
STRUCTURE

Calculated at 8gs for landing forces

He3 - 178.5 kg/m3
Deu - 162.4 kg/m3
Avg Density: 170.45kg/m3

Structure Material: Titanium
Payload Mass: 1328 tonne
M/R: 4.455 (only changes amount of fuel)
Acc: 8g
Volume: 4918.85 m3
Structural Mass: 132.56004133911324 tonne
Structural Volume: 29.41856221462788 m3
Fuel Mass: 462.58318282663623 tonne
Total Mass: 133.88804133911324 tonne
Hull Thickness: 0.0026880504929752474 m3
Fuel Volume: 2713.893709748526 m3

External Tanks: 17.6784mH & 6.096mD = 4 x 515.97m3V = 2063.88m3V
Internal Tank: 7.9248mH & 10.3632mD = 668.4m3V
Total Tank Vol: 2732.3m3V

-----
SUPPLIES NEEDED:

28 People
380 Days (12+ months)
50MW (just a guess)
Water: 224.8512 m3 ; 247.856020827072 tonnes
Food: 65.25866666666666 m3 ; 26.975762378319995 tonnes
Air: 2.2518897289728 m3 ; 0.67556691869184 tonnes
---Waste Heat Power Generator: 15 m3; 7.5 tonnes---
Total: 307.3617563956395 m3; 283.00735012408387 tonnes;

-----

Breakdown of Mass by percentage

Structure Mass % - 133.9/1328 = 10.1% of Total Mass
Fuel Mass % - 462.58/1328 = 34.8% of Total Mass
Engine Mass % - 80/1328 = 6.0% of Total Mass
FTL Drive % - 34/1328 = 2.6% of Total mass
Supplies % - 292.4/1328 = 22.0% of Total Mass
Avionics % - 74/1328 = 5.6% of Total Mass

Thermal % - /1328 = % of Total Mass
Mission Equipment* % - /1328 = % of Total Mass
Fins/Feet/Internal Structure % - /1328 = % of Total Mass

Total - 81.1%
As well, I've made some more progress on the drawing. I still have to do the rest of the interior configurations, but the outside is completed, for the most part. In order to provide access to certain components in the ship, I will be adding access panels, that are not meant to be removed except for major repairs to a system. I also need to figure out where to put the materials for an Emergency A-Frame (in case it topples) but I can put that in the landing legs.
[ img ]

If anyone has the know-how, I'd like to have my calculations looked over and any discrepancies noted.

-EZ

_________________
Salide - Denton - Texas - Rio Grande

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


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apdsmith
Post subject: Re: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: March 4th, 2016, 2:04 pm
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Hey Ethan,

Looking good, but I'd query the numbers on your demographics - 2,300 worlds times a 700,000 average (I assume "mean") population = 1.6 billion Total - that's for planets only, of course, but would seem to nix any idea of 10-15 billion population planets. Also, regarding the rocket, any requirement for core ejection in case the reactor does something dramatic? Not sure if that's covered under "access panels", as it's not strictly inaccurate for an ejection system would need...

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: March 4th, 2016, 6:07 pm
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I just did a quick and dirty calculation of 15 billion on each industrialized planet, which there are 109 of. That gives me 1.635 billion. The calculations are actually outdated. It used to be 2 million planets, and 1.6 quadrillion people, but I decreased it.
I'm gonna have to go back over them, but it's not that important.

There is no reactor or nuclear rocket on board. The rockets are fusion rockets, using He3-D fusion in space and D-T Fusion when landing and taking off. There is a shield just above the internal fuel tank to protect against the Neutrons emitted by the D-T fusion, but that's it. That's why I chose fusion rockets so that I wouldn't have to worry about Radiation.

-EZ

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Salide - Denton - Texas - Rio Grande

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


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apdsmith
Post subject: Re: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: March 4th, 2016, 6:19 pm
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Ahh, I see. Do you mean total pop 1.6 trillion? That would seem to be consistent with your figures.

Fair enough regards the reactor (or lack thereof) - I'd been under the impression that even fusion reaction generate plenty of neutrons to degrade and irradiate the vessel (in the chemistry sense of vessel rather than the seafaring sense) in which the reaction occurs, but I could quite easily be wrong. Looking forward to seeing more!

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: March 4th, 2016, 10:51 pm
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Yes, that's total population. I did a new calculation. I figured for Industrial worlds a median of 12 billion (109 planets) and for inhabited worlds 8 million (2200 planets). This gives me 1.308 trillion on industrial worlds and 17.6 billion for inhabited worlds. So, that gives me a total planetary population of 1.3256 Trillion. Once we account for asteroids, planetoids, moons, deep space stations, space stations, transients/nomads, etc. 1.6 trillion should be good.

Edit: I now see where the confusion comes from. I did mean trillion not billions. My bad.

I should have gone into more detail. Yes you are correct, fusion does create neutrons that will irradiate and imbrittle the vessel. Looking on this page, it has a chart of how much of what comes from the reaction. With He3-D (space drive) it is 75% thermal, 5% neutrons, 20% radiation. With the D-T (StO drive) 21% is thermal, 79% neutrons, 8% radiation. So, this means that while the rocket is active it will spew out all of this. There will be a shield protecting everything above the fuel tank. When it's on the ground, it will not be creating any radiation or neutrons, so the threat of irradiation is low on the ground. However, as time goes on, everything that is not protected by the shield will become irradiated and will eventually have to be replaced or whatever. This is not really an issue, though.

-EZ

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Last edited by ezgo394 on March 5th, 2016, 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Charybdis
Post subject: Re: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: March 5th, 2016, 3:00 am
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I love this idea! You should definitely write a book. Try not to fixate on the technical too much as I think it will hamper the story telling. Good sci-fi is a mix of an imaginary future based on science that's a great read. I think that's a very fine line to tread.

One question: Why are the decks stacked vertically through the ship and not horizontally? Is there any artificial gravity? The ship would feel incredibly small to a crew living on there for months, years on end.

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: March 5th, 2016, 6:44 am
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Thanks Charybdis!

Right now, the story itself is in the planning stages (as well as my composition skills. Still working on that). I'm preoccupying my time with the technical stuff and that also makes it more fun, figuring this stuff out ;) . It's hard to come up with an original story idea, as there's only so many to go around :roll: . I've got a beginning and parts of an end. If anyone has any ideas they'd like to see in a space setting like this, I'd be happy to hear them! I'm already gonna have some small scale space battles, planetary invasion, shootouts, double agents and spies, espionage, cool equipment, all the good stuff! But, the actual plot is much harder to come up with.
But I have identified several themes that I'd like to emulate, one of which is no clear indication of a good or bad guy. Every character has a good and bad side, and it's up to the reader to find someone that they like, rather than just automatically siding with a good or bad side. The primary way, I think, to go about this is to have character goals that are relatable, so that one can understand why everyone is doing what they're doing.
Anyways, the story is a work in progress. As for the technical information, it's generally more for myself so that i can better visualize the setting, and in turn keep it more consistent.

As for the vertical-ness, the decks are perpendicular to the thrust, so under acceleration, the engines provide the 'artificial gravity.' There is artificial gravity in this setting, but it is only able to imitate gravity in one direction (such as when coasting or orbiting), as in it does not provide inertial negation (often incorrectly referred to as inertial dampening). For ships like those in practically all sci-fi settings, there has to be a way to counter the effects of the thrust from the engine (as the decks are parallel to the thrust. Imagine standing on a bus while it's accelerating. That's the same principle), so that's where 'inertial dampers' are used. However, such technology is lazy, wayyyy too complicated for this setting, and also makes things too easy in ship design. Being constrained to a set of parameters is what makes sci-fi interesting and that is what I'm trying to do here, for the most part. For the sake of the story, I have to move some things along and fudge some numbers, but it's all within reason.
Upon reflection, it will make make things interesting, placing decks in a vertical configuration, especially for warships. I do plan on drawing some larger ships in a 1px=1ft or 1px=2ft scale to depict what other ships would look like, including military ships. That'll come soon enough. I've also started to compile a list of civilian and military ship types for this setting, and I'll try to draw a generic representation of each one, so y'all can get an idea of what things look like.

The ship is pretty small yes, but the hope is (with this ship and it's mission) that after a month of transit in space, once it lands on the planet that it needs to survey, then the crew can stretch their legs and only have to be at the ship to sleep.

-EZ

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Judah14
Post subject: Re: Rockets for a Sci-Fi SettingPosted: March 5th, 2016, 3:21 pm
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Nice work!
Aside from radiators, you also need vernier thrusters for maneuvering.


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