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Hood
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 10th, 2017, 9:26 am
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Excellent additions.
I can sense the Astons will come up next.

Avro certainly got some mileage from the Manchester/Lancaster design.

The Tudor is a mysterious failure in some aspects. I was hoping the Aeroplane Monthly would shed some light on the technical failures in its Database entry in the last issue. It seems surprising Avro had such aerodynamic problems marrying the Lancaster wing to a new circular fuselage given the experience it had with the wing design. Pressurisation of such a large volume probably was problematic given the lack of experience in the industry at that time. Of course BOAC didn't help with all its changes and added luxuries. As the Database article says, the Tudor was meant to be a stopgap and yet BOAC didn't see it that way and wanted perfection and that crippled progress as much as anything else. The unexplained BSAA crashes of course didn't help either in terms of confidence in the aircraft.

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Sheepster
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 10th, 2017, 2:06 pm
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Avro 690 Avro XXII
[ img ]
Working on the Avro XXI design for increased range as a trans-Atlantic airliner for the Brabazon Committee led to a version with increased wingspan and six engines for increased range. The aircraft as designed with the Tudor's aerodynamic flaws, so if it had ever progressed past the drawing board it would have had to incorporate the Tudor modifications.

Avro 699
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Avro 709
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Attempting to update the Tudor 2 design to compete with other post-war airliners, addition of a nosewheel and the useage of the broadchord fin led to two further developments, which still failed to gain interest. Building on the Tudor 7 for European routes was the Avro 699, while increase tankage and the revised nose later flown on the Ashton featured on the Avro 709, but neither progressed past the drawing board.


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Sheepster
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 10th, 2017, 2:15 pm
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Avro 711A Trader
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With the Tudor banned from passenger carrying operations, Avro looked at creating a Tudor 2 freighter. Using the Tudor 4 derived 711 as a guide, a higher volume pure freighter was planned. 10 airframes were designated and registrations even allocated, but again the project did not advance. Varying engine combinations were projected, including a twin engine turboprop Double Mamba variant.


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Sheepster
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 10th, 2017, 2:26 pm
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Avro 689 Tudor 9
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Using the shortened Tudor 2 fuselage to create a test aircraft equivalent to the Tudor 8, the nosewheel Tudor 9 was planned but not built.

Avro 706 Ashton
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With the Ashton, Avro finally got to cut metal with a Tudor development, however the Ashton was designed from the outset as a test aircraft for airliner and engine development and was never to be a commercial aircraft. Various test engines were mounted on ventral panniers and additional wing mounted nacelles, and other aircraft sported various bomb racks and military equipment.
The Mk.3 with its 6 engine configuration featured in the film "Cone of Silence", portraying a fictional new jet airliner with a design flaw in a fictional story based loosely on the DH Comet.


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adenandy
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 11th, 2017, 6:28 am
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EXCELLENT work throughout Sheepster :!:

Jolly well done old cheese :D

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Sheepster
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 11th, 2017, 1:25 pm
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We already have a magnificent Shackleton collection on shipbucket, but I'm indulging my interest in prototypes and one-offs as an addition to Shippy2013 and Naixoterk's work.

Avro 696 Shackleton
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The Lincoln ASR.III eventually morphed into a new design as the Shackleton. With the Battle of the Atlantic still very much in mind, the first 2 prototypes mounted chin turrets for anti-submarine combat, and rear defensive turrets. Both were subsequently dropped for production aircraft. The aircraft's initial designation of GR was changed to MR in service.
The first prototype was modified to become the Mk2 prototype, with dummy aerodynamic fairing fitted to nose and tail. The radar was moved from under the nose where many radomes had been shattered by birdstrikes, and a dummy retractable dustbin radar was installed behind the bomb bay.
With the cancellation of the initial Mk3 design, a simple upgrade was made to the Mk.2 to create the definitive Mk.3. The nose was bulged to incorporate a nosewheel assembly and the bomb bay shortened, tankage increased, and a revised cockpit glazing fitted. Eventually jet assist engines were added to the outer engine nacelles to allow increased weight take-off's for the Mk.3 - but with the penalty of significantly reducing the life of the airframe.
By the time that the AEW Gannets were retired, and before the eventual replacement of the Nimrod was developed the Shackleton was used as an interim replacement. As the Mk.3 aircraft did not have the service life available for continued use, the old Mk.2's were modified to become AEW.2 aircraft, and outlived their your siblings.

Avro 696 Shackleton ASR
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To fulfill one of the Shackleton's initial design functions of air-sea rescue, SARO Mark.3 lifeboats were trialed on all Shackletons, including those in South Africa, except the AEW.2. No actual rescue drops were ever made, and the adoption of fully inflatable airdrop systems rendered the solid lifeboats redundant.

Avro 696 Shackleton test aircraft
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The Shackleton never had the plethora of development aircraft like its Lancaster and Lincoln forebears.
Trials were made on a MAD submarine detection system, but the early generation equipment was not sufficiently effective.
The first prototype was again repurposed with additional sensors fitted for guided missile testing, and one aircraft was allocated to the Empire Test Pilot's School in a unique Royal Navy colour scheme.

Avro 713 Shackleton meteorological research aircraft
[ img ]
In addition to the 712 Lincoln, a proposal was made to build a Shackleton Mk.1 weather research aircraft. Like the Lincoln version it was not produced.


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reytuerto
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 12th, 2017, 2:00 am
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Excellent series of magnificent drawings!


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 12th, 2017, 11:00 am
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Very nice work. :)

@Sheepster
Re: Argentine Lancastrians and Lincolns - I thought it was a reason, but the reason I asked was that hopefully one day we'll have the new FD Archive, and when we have it, I'll be uploading stuff there. And then both Argentine Lancastrians will end up together in single template, and both Argentine Lincolns also in (another) single template. (And possibly all Australian Lincolns also together, and the never-were or testbed models also on fewer templates and so on...)
Because there are already 6400+ FD files and I welcome any effort to make content included in "fewer larger files" instead of "more smaller files". ;)

viewtopic.php?p=144323#p144323
viewtopic.php?p=144357#p144357
;)

Anyway, keep up the great work!

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Sheepster
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 12th, 2017, 12:34 pm
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Avro 716 Shackleton Mk.3
[ img ]
The initial design for the Shackleton Mk.3 was for an aircraft fitted with the Napier Nomad engine. As Napier dropped development of the very complex Nomad 1 and embarked on the less radical but still extremely efficient Nomad 2, this engine was selected for the next model of Shackleton. The second prototype was allocated to the project, and work progressed on the engineering aspects in the Shackleton 1 airframe. Development of the Shackleton around the engine led to the Mk.3. Significantly different to the MR.2, the Mk.3 was to have been a nosewheel, single tailed aircraft. Delays to the Nomad 2, and then it's eventual cancellation led to the eventual MR.3 being downscaled to a less radical redesign.

Avro 719 Shackleton Mk.4
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Further work on the Mk.3 led to the ultimate expression of the Manchester/Lancaster/Lincoln/Shackleton line, the unbuilt Mk.4.
Even as the Nomad engine was floundering, Avro attempted to keep the Mk.4 afloat by proposing the P&W R3350.


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Sheepster
Post subject: Re: Avro Lancaster familyPosted: November 12th, 2017, 12:53 pm
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There are still another couple of Avro designs that I couldn't illustrate, because after nearly 75 years there doesn't appear to be enough information to work out decent schematics, the superbombers just boggle the imagination.

Avro 686 - high altitude Lancaster replacement - separate from the high altitude and stratospheric Lancasters.
Avro 75-ton superbomber - No Avro project number: 8 engine Lancaster, approximately double the size of the Lancaster.
Avro 100-ton superbomber - No Avro project number: 10 engine Lancaster, approximately triple the size of the Lancaster.


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