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Tohoseiryu
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 26th, 2020, 12:24 am
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Charguizard wrote: *
Indeed the tsun kat shakes the establishment with visually impressive masterpieces, though the gentlemanly thing to do is to write a little paragraph giving your opinion of each entry. I'm halfway done with mine and since this challenge is such a success I hope at least a couple more people do so as well.
Everyone drew really good drawings, I just posted the first thing that caught my attention :)


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Kiwi Imperialist
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 26th, 2020, 10:17 pm
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For those of you who have not visited the Shipbucket Discord, I wish to remind everyone that honest and fair poll responses are expected. Participants work hard to create the wonderful entries that we see in each challenge. We should endeavour to reward them with a just score. Responses which grant maximum scores to one or two entries and minimum scores to all other entries will be deleted. To the vast majority of respondents who have granted scores impartially, thank you.


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erik_t
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 27th, 2020, 2:01 am
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I do not feel qualified to attempt to cast a vote in this competition, but I would be remiss if I didn't share my praise for a set of thoughtful, well-executed concepts and drawings. You all live in a more interesting world than the real one :)


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Cplnew83
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 27th, 2020, 7:13 am
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TigerHunter1945 wrote: *
Char B2 Heavy Tank, the defender of the France.

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specs will be added later
These three B1 bis sons are absolutely splendid. Thank you !

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madmike
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 27th, 2020, 9:15 am
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Rodondo wrote: *
FV 4039 “Tiny/Big Annie”
Terrified of the growing communist threats overseas and the relative disparity between the steel fortresses the USSR were churning out compared to the Centurion tanks the Australian army were fielding, the Menzies Government started collaborating with the British Army in 1954 to build a tank “Capable of fighting in any corner of the arid interior for months at a time and able to crack the toughest nut whilst supporting our boys” The design brief was simple in words but breathtakingly infeasible. A tank that could see off any current or projected USSR rival in masses whilst operating alone in a potential irradiated area for months at a time. Design was started parallel with lessons learned in the atomic testing at Emu Field with a Centurion that British tanks were capable of surviving a near-direct blast but the crew wasn’t. Furthermore, the atrocious conditions that the tractor unit encountered pulling the Centurion were taken into consideration. It became clear any heavy tank operating in the outback would have to carry in its supplies, fuel, and support staff. The Australians were tasked with building the support trailers which would house all the requirements needed to establish a FOB in the bush. These trailers were only mildly armoured, possessing 20mm sides, 30mm floors, and 17mm decks. An exception was the “Pit” on the fuel and supply trailer which was encased in 425mm of concrete and a lead/steel liner. This was to hold any nuclear material that the tank would require, either 6 sabot 155mm nuclear shells from the Yellow Anvil program or a Violet Mist nuclear demolition charge.

Development was mostly undertaken in Britain, where testing and construction of the fully-functioning prototype was complete by March 1957, where it was shipped to Australia after basic testing of systems, having the turret removed for ease of embarking. Shipped to Whyalla, “Tiny” as she was known in the R&D circles became a logistical nightmare, a wharf and crane had to be specifically made to unload her from the ship. Assembly and calibration took five weeks before she was ready for trials. Hooking up her “train” which for testing purposes consisted of an accommodation/mess trailer, a supply trailer, and a Green Mace prototype the RAAF was keen to trial. To much fanfare, she was to depart Whyalla under inauspicious conditions, a defective track pin sheared, sending a forward track whipping out. Fixed readily from her supply trailer in under an hour, she set off with a crew of 33 and a mascot wombat called Wyatt. The Whyalla council was dismayed at the fact she turned any road into rubble, they sent a driver to hail her down and ask nicely if they wouldn’t mind saving the road and travel alongside for the sake of the culverts too. For the most part, she bulldozed her own path to Woomera where trials with operating a mock FOB just out from the township were conducted, crew noted how woefully slow it was to rearm the tank they had come to know as Big Annie (named after Anne Beadell, wife of the explorer who was assisting the crew with his intimate knowledge of the outback) but on the whole they were happy with the Australian trailers, noting the supply one should come with a collapsible derrick for loading the Malkara missiles into the Land Rover’s trailer, instead of relying on the A-frame crane mounted on the recovery Land Rover. On the whole, the performance was near expected, 4039’s towing speed was only 12kph over the rough terrain but on her own, with the auxiliary engines, she could steam along at up to 31kph on good hard ground.
A gunnery exercise was conducted in September 1957, where representatives from both armies watched in amazement as the heaviest guns available to the ADF, the main gun of a Centurion and a 155mm Long Tom field piece, at close range, blew craters into a spare turret side piece of the 4049 but failed to penetrate the armor bar small flakes spalled. They were more horrified than amazed when 4039 lumbered up to the range and with scarcely any effort, turned an M3 Grant inside out, knocked the turret off a surplus Centurion and cracked a 300mm steel plate at 1500m, in under three minutes. A Chaffee was “reduced to her components” at 3200m as a final example. The ADF was sold and was considering an order of 12 production units pending a simulated war patrol. Scheduled for later in the month to simulate it much more closely, a nuclear test was to coincide to allow a light testing of the radiation measures.
Setting off in the early hours, with a temporary escort of Ferret Armoured Cars to ensure 4039 didn’t stray onto the launch sites, she set a course for Broome. The fallout cleaning system was tested at regular intervals and worked for the most part, though the level of radiation was minor. After five days, a FOB was set up about 250km SW of Fitzroy’s Crossing in the Great Sandy Desert. Further testing was done including a Jindivick drone shootdown by the Green Mace and simulated patrols. 4039 struck out for Broome with just her fuel trailer and returned five days later. After four months which included a simulated attack air, nuclear drill, and regular reconnaissance patrols, they returned to Woomera for further evaluation. In 1958, she was used to firing a non-nuclear prototype of the Yellow Anvil program at Maralinga before remotely firing a live 1.5kt warhead a distance of 19km. This was to be the last time she fired the main gun. Another trial using a Fairey Rotorcraft as a recon unit mounted on a lightweight platform was considered in late 1958 but was cancelled. In 1959, on advice from Treasurer Harold Holt, Defence Minister Athol Townley cancelled Australia’s interest in the program, noting Britain had lost interest earlier. The Green Mace was returned to Britain in 1962 to go into storage, the other trailers being too large to leave Woomera really, instead were put to use. The accommodation and mess trailer was then hauled to Maralinga to use as a semi-mobile base (in ’67 pushed into the quarry and buried)while 4039 and her fuel trailer were put to use as a heavy haulage unit and salvage recovery vehicle for the next 19 years before an electrical/fuel fire in the RHS engine bays damaged the gearbox irreparably and spares couldn’t be sourced readily. As the fire suppression system hadn’t been maintained since 1965, she was deemed to be too much of a risk anyway and was abandoned 250km NW of Emu Field where she sat for years hidden among the scrub, visited occasionally by off-roaders. Len Beadell would later wryly remark, “It seems all the king’s horse and all the king’s men couldn’t get Tiny going again” an apt point seeing that the only recovery vehicle designed to get a disabled FV4039 going was hidden somewhere in the MOD archives. Happily, in 2005, a group of armour enthusiasts received permission to inspect the now rusting and vandalized wreck and found it was possible to restore it to basic mobility. After eight weeks of work including using the mostly cleaned out workshop on the trailer, she was made mobile and crept back to Woomera where she underwent a basic restoration that was mainly cosmetic. She is now parked adjacent to the missile park on display with her fuel trailer.

Statistics- FV4039
Length (Hull)- 12.99m
Length OA-14.76m
Length (including support train)- 61.6m(not yet determined)
Width- 7.97m
Height – 4.39m
Weight- 218.5t Combat ready, + between 89.5t and 158t for the “support train”.
Armour- thicc as your mum
Armament 1x Ordnance, Quick Firing 183mm, Tank , L4 Gun, 1x Oerkilon 20mm, 4x 7.62mm MG, Twin arm Malkara launcher.
Ammunition Storage- 183mm, designed for 10 ready use near loader, 5 in loader, 24 in turret rear, four in turret base (spare storage intended for Yellow Anvil)
20mm 7 cans carried externally, 3 cans internally
7.62mm 10 cans carried externally, 8 cans carried internally
Malkara, none intended, in practice too heavy to load without crane.
Powerplant/s 4x Rolls Royce Meteor 810hp each, 2x 3 cylinder Lister petrol gensets 24hp each
Speed- 12kph under usual support load, 21kph offroad (poor), 28kph offroad (good), 30kph on-road (rarely achieved due to damage to surface)
Crew 7 (One Commander, One gunner Two loaders, one engineer/comms, two drivers)
Accommodation/Mess Trailer
20,000L of potable water, 5200L petrol, 2 toilets, galley, 6-cylinder genset, 12-berth bunkhouse, 6-berth officer’s cabin. Storage for effects + equipment totalling 4.5m3, radiation and dust wash down station, 120 cans of 20mm, 172 cans of 7.62mm
Supplies Trailer
Spare Parts, roadwheels, 35m of space track, fully outfitted workshop capable of repairing or replacing most items, 122 183mm HESH rounds, 12 Malkara ATMs, 300 rounds of 5” finned AA rounds, explosive charges+ landmines. 27,000L of petrol, bowser + 50m of high-flow hose, radioactive munition vault, 6-cylinder genset + radar. Carries three Land Rover 3/4t Portees + one tandem trailer for recon and rearming. Recon Land Rover armed with 7.62mm MG and 120mm Recoilless rifle.
Green Mace
5” AAG, considered for full time use, carries 4 resupplies on the trailer totalling 72 rounds.
Consideration or another trailer was given but dropped owing to the trouble with turning already encountered with the three-trailer support train.
Penetration figures
183mm ()

Armour Figures FV4039 (against KE)
Mantle ~460-520 (~810mm RHA Effective)
Turret Front 425mm @52deg (~690mm RHA Effective) to 350mm @ 41deg (~471mm RHA Effective)
Turret Sides 350mm @ 41deg (~471mm RHA Effective) to 250mm @ 28deg (~283mm RHA Effective)
Turret Rear 75mm @ 47deg (~110mm RHA Effective)
Turret roof 75mm @ 85 deg (~860mm RHA Effective, realistically impossible to achieve with height of roof and angles required for solid contact)
Commanders/Crew Hatch 125mm 0deg to 70deg (~125-374mm RHA Effective)

Hull Front (Upper) 225mm @ 70deg (~660mm RHA Effective)
Hull Front (Lower) 250mm @ -48deg (~375mm RHA Effective)
Hull Sides (Upper) 125mm @ 70deg (~374mm RHA Effective)
Hull Sides (Lower) 100mm @ -3deg (~101mm RHA Effective) + Skirt 12.5mm @ 0deg (~12mm RHA Effective)
Hull Rear 125mm @ -10 to -55 deg (~127-218mm RHA Effective)

[ img ]

[ img ]
Absolutely foolish, but really fantastic.


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Hood
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 27th, 2020, 11:57 am
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Rodondo,
Is there any chance of getting the Red Mace and the Fairey Ultralight as stand-alone FD-scale drawings?

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Rodondo
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 28th, 2020, 1:13 am
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Yes I'm just cleaning them up and should have them done this week plus an RN Fairey Ultralight

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Miscellaneous|Victorian Colonial Navy|Murray Riverboats|Colony of Victoria AU|Project Sail-fixing SB's sail shortage
How to mentally pronounce my usernameRow-(as in a boat)Don-(as in the short form of Donald)Dough-(bread)
"Loitering on the High Seas" (Named after the good ship Rodondo)

There's no such thing as "nothing left to draw" If you can down 10 pints and draw, you're doing alright by my standards


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Charguizard
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 29th, 2020, 12:09 am
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Location: Santiago Basin
I’d like to start off by saying I am amazed and surprised at the turnout for this challenge. Not only have there been an amazing total of 25 entries(!), which immediately makes it an astounding success, but the quality of entries had me excited all the way through to the end, you just can’t tell who will win! Another surprise is the level of restrain exhibited by the community. The norm is that as soon as the challenge rules are presented, people start trying to find loopholes and ways to skirt the reasonable limits. Not here, just a few superheavies to be seen, no pentaturret monsters, no naval gun carrying behemoths, overall a very reasonable roster despite there literally being no limits established. Curious.

FV44(H) Alpha Wolf by RaspingLeech
Rasp was the first to finish with a very attractive and rather reasonable Soviet heavy. Then bam. Dropped not one but three variants of a late war Confederate heavy belonging to the Southern Victory universe. I’d rather get this out of the way immediately, the base tank isn’t a looker, but that’s >opinions. The tank is well drawn, the suspension is a very interesting point and has been well renditioned, the tracks and details are sufficient given the limitations of FD. The best this tank has in my opinion is the design, of both the base version and the variants. I feel they all make sense, are realistic and interesting, this tank would be a fearsome foe in 1944. Extra points for doing 3 views and for the schemes, making everything line up is NOT EASY.

AmCrO. M/44 Mammud by JCSTCap
An FD entry from someone better known for bigger scale tanks, the M/44 is attractive if a bit conservative (within the spectrum of oscillating turret tanks). The camouflage is pretty, the contrast between tones edges on the excessive on the lower hull and drivetrain but gets the point across. Believable and about right for a French inspired late 1940s Heavy. Would’ve loved more views/versions.

Panzerkampfwagen IX Löwe by Armoured man
A long and sleek E50-75 kind of deal, drops the interleaved roadwheels but otherwise about right for the formula. Some of the details are really good, some like the towing eyes are missing, shame its not camouflaged.

M1945 ‘Jalo’ by Psychicumbreon
A rather attractive and believable tank, very compact. Looks very modern for the era but not to the detriment of its realism score. Basic details are enough for a minimum but could benefit from more work done with highlighting and shading. Mattress armour is notoriously hard to pull off, in this case I think it wasn’t succesful, maybe a much darker or lighter colour would’ve done the trick. Time would’ve allowed for a front view, which would’ve helped appreciate the handsome shape better, and camouflage which would’ve made this vehicle really pop out (Imagine it in swedish splinter!).

WB-16 by Eswube
This tank is fabulously drawn, the high contrast between tones serves to define the shapes effectively, the roadwheels are a delight, the lifting eyes and top view details are fantastic. A superior example set by an FD master. The design also looks like a ferocious foe, equivalent to an M103 with similar strengths and weaknesses, but with a smoothbore gun (!). Would really like to see some schemes for it since plain green without any markings is very boring.

Hv XVI.II A Jörmungandr by Rorie
An excellent addition from a new member! Well defined shapes and sufficient detail. The tracks as they wrap around the (apparently identical) idler and sprocket need some work, the sections are too angular right now. Drawing proper sprockets in this scale is extremely hard, but the cut corners are evident too. Again plain green is boring. A 140mm gun makes for a ferocious armament, which is presumably loaded like in an IS-7. Proper monster this one.

Panzer 57 by Hood
A very ugly tank that looks like some sort of bird, but a very interesting concept executed excellently. Thanks for the 3 views, helps to make some sense of the tank’s alien form. The wheels are gorgeous, the skirts intricate and the back view full of interesting features. The high contrast on the tracks works very well. Nice trick on the number four on the side of the turret. The double black on the front view on the rangefinder edge could’ve probably been avoided and there could’ve been more contrast with the rear towing eyes but oh well, minor nitpicks. Consider it stolen for use in the Zürich Pact >:)

LT(H)-44 by The_Sprinklez
A lot of detail has been crammed in only a handful of pixels. The shapes are surprisingly well defined and betray the shape of a fierce brawler. The gun barrel could be darker in my opinion in order to stand out more. Duplex Drive version is ingenious and a welcome addition. Tank destroyer version is a bit ambiguous on the existance of a revolving turret. Ferocious.

SOM Poirot CB75 by Aiseus
Very french while not taking a traditional french approach. Rounded voluptuous forms, rather odd proportions and the pike nose all draw interest. The railing on the side of the turret could be rendered better and the cupola might interfere with the miniturret’s machine guns. Engine deck detailing is very good. A 130mm gun makes it properly dangerous. I’m very interested in seeing the Foch drawn. SoB maybe?

M-53 Vepar by Albert1099
A straight up very good drawing! Delicate details, well defined shapes, good tracks, and the rubber armour on the last one is simply outstanding, I’ll be copying this technique for sure. The crew is a nice touch, though the camouflaged ones have gradients on them which is very heretical. The skirts should probably cast a shadow on the roadwheels too. Not a very powerful tank by statistics, but one easy to field and maintain, the formations it belongs to would probably be an interesting foe.

P58/47 Leviatano by Morgansshipyard
A brave entry from a new member, the camouflage must’ve taken a lot of courage. The design overall is pretty solid though the rearmost bogie looks kind of out of place. It seems like the hull might dig into the ground when going down ditches. The idler and sprocket need more definition as a lot of black lines touch. Better use of shading would define the shapes better, specially on the lower train and turret. Details are about sufficient though you can barely see the shovel. Comments apply all the same to the second (?) entry. Good job and keep up the good work.

VKPz.VII Höhlenlöwe by Imperialist
Absolutely beautiful entry by another FD master. A more sensible E100 if you will, this tank is an absolute beast. The King Kong of the Eastern Front. The pintle mounted MK108 just blew my mind. If anything, I’d like a bit more contrast on the shadows, but this is super minor. Magnificent entry.

Rhinoceros I by WesleyWestland
Another newcomer jumping right into a challenge, good job on a completed drawing! A bit flat at first sight, the tank is actually fairly well drawn but the timid shading prevents it from popping out. Tracks are surprisingly well done, details are a bit lacking but not absent. The design is solid and not too ambitious. It is very original and believable though!
Char Lourd CL-50 by Laforest
A smashing entry from Laforest! Where the hell did this one come from!? Amazing use of colour and shading, beautiful details, I love the oversized bolts on the turret and the gun travel lock. The wheels and rivets are stupendous, the crew uniforms fantastic, these tanks push the edge of the scale. The tank’s design is also interesting, original and believable. Wish they had more views and schemes.

Teš. Okl. Bor. Vz III by jjx indoweeb
Yet another newcomer braving their first challenge (possibly, don’t quote me on that), and I think this one gets the Special Mention for Best Newbie Entry. The use of colour and shading is stupidly good, the details are very well rendered and the overall design stretches the continuum between realism and originality. The camouflage version is very beautiful, it uses very interesting colours and tones them down to a very enjoyable pastel effect. Bloody excellent job.

MV-386 Serval by wb21
An excellent drawing, very well defined shapes, excellent highlighting defines the turret very well, very good running gear. Details are sufficient. Only the sprocket looks a bit odd but in this scale its super hard to draw openings like those. The schemes are simple but attractive. Would’ve loved more views to appreciate the design better. The choice of gun is a bit concerning, what a monster.

Pz. Kpfw V ausf.A1 Puma by asqwerty3342
Another newbie entry, good job on a solid drawing. The cupola vision ports should be outlined in black, you can barely discern them now. The tank has plenty of details but not enough shading and contrast. The black line defining the front turret cheeks should probably not be black. A bit more practice and you’ll be fighting with the big bois. The design overall is very believable but gives me a weird sensation that its too conservative in some aspects while getting a rather newish look from the interleaved roadwheels.

105mm heavy gun carrier, H2 by Shigure
Absolutely beautiful design and drawing. Handsome and well balanced, the drawing has a lot of details and very attractive shapes. The case ejection port is an excellent detail. The tank looks like a fearsome gladiator, very competent. The variants are interesting and well drawn but less pretty.

CMP 62/44 by kvasius
I was present during the design process for this one. Pretty funny. Bobblehead tank manages to still look realistic, if a bit impractical in the operational sense. The scheme provides some good insights into the tank’s owners. The tracks are a bit messed up at the ends.

Kanonpantser m/59 Belgae by Charguizard
My entry so I’ll just tell you a little about it :)
Actually not my original entrant, I drew another tank before in FD, decided to draw it in 1.5cm=1px, figured out it had to be larger than what I had drawn in FD and then moved on to its successor, which is the tank I finally entered. If you guessed this tank to basically be a T110E5 with a welded hull… you’d be right. It also has a T54E2 turret more or less. The mention of strict transportation regulations should have you feeling nostalgic for a place that doesn’t exist, namely a certain tunnel. The commander is my little homage to Advance Wars and the last scheme takes a lot from Australian Centurions in Vietnam. I’d love to do a Marinejager and a modernized Indonesian scheme at some point.

TT-48 by APDAF
APDAF soldiers on with another challenge entry, his best yet for sure. The last scheme is the one that makes the vehicle really pop out. Better use of highlighting is needed to really define the complex shapes of the turret. Log is a nice touch. Towing eyes are sorely missing from the front view, which also could use another set of headlights and maybe something like a fire extinguisher.

Z.Hw.Sp. 13504/220 Oger by Kat Tsun
Wow, simply wow. Ogre meets Obj.490. Honestly I expected more crazy entries but Kattsun fills the entire challenge’s quota. The exquisite and delicate pixelwork is kind of wasted as the original drawing doesn’t follow style conventions, something our wise sperglord should be aware of. Perhaps the simple art of SB simply cannot contain the raw talent. The design is intimidating, anxiety inducing but also kind of believable. Simply incredible.

Oh and the fluff is a solid tl;dr for me.

Churchill WTT by J. Scholtens
Now to the opposite end to the crazy spectrum! Ace always brings something interesting to the table and this is no exception. The drawing is beautiful and represents the design very well. Only the colours on the markings look a bit saturated. The design is completely believable and goes well with its fluff, this tank of course is no war winner, more of a footnote in a fictional universe. I love it.

Char B2 ter by TigerHunter1945
I’ve used the word exquisite before but I have to use it again. TH’s skill has skyrocketed in the last year and this tank is a real beauty to behold. The curvy shapes are magnificently represented, the details plenty and appropriate, the design makes sense and fits its context, this entry is a winner. The final scheme is, simply put, luxurious.

FV4039 Tiny/Big Annie by Rodondo
If many of the entries here have been absolute beasts and monsters, this one truly is the Kaiju tank to rule them all, king of monsters. Not even a GDI Mammoth can match its majesticness, nevermind the whole train we get! This entry is what this challenge is all about. The drawing lacks not for points of interest, Rodondo seems to have thought about everything. It also happens to be the most powerful combat vehicle in the challenge, if you had any doubts (or maybe its Kat’s, idk, too much fluff). Worst thing is, the tank is actually believable, at least in its current test vehicle form. Only the set of wheels on the Green Mace’s towing bar and on the jeeps seem to lack a bit of detail. Big Annie shocks and awes me. Excellent job.

May the meanest win.

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Kiwi Imperialist
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 29th, 2020, 12:04 pm
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The poll for the endgame heavy tank challenge has closed. 24 entries were submitted before the deadline, if we exclude those which were later withdrawn, and a staggering 46 people responded to the poll. That really is an astounding number. Great work!

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Congratulations to Charguizard, the winner of the 'endgame' heavy tank challenge. They achieved first place with the outstanding SD 752. It is a great entry and an excellent addition to the Batavian Republics universe. Charguizard also received the highest score in the drawing quality and design realism categories. Second place goes to Rodondo and the mighty FV 4039 Tiny/Big Annie. I did not expect to see a road train in tank form, but I'm glad I did. Rodondo also received the highest score in the originality category, narrowly beating Kat Tsun and their Oger. With the wonderful Char B2, TigerHunter1945 achieved the third place. The Char B2 is a fascinating what-if showing the potential evolution of French heavy tanks.

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The Second World War destroyer escort challenge is now open for those interested. It can be found here.


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Charguizard
Post subject: Re: 'Endgame' Heavy Tank ChallengePosted: October 29th, 2020, 12:26 pm
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Smashing! A big thank you to everyone who participated and who liked my entry. Like I said before this one was filled with spectacular and beautiful entries from both new fellows and old hands, and those who came lower than they wanted or expected in the results can rest assured their entries have a solid core that just has to be worked on. My comments have been posted already but anyone looking for more insight should absolutely ask. A big congratulations to TigerHunter for placing in the podium with a honestly jaw-droppingly beautiful tank, and to Rodondo for pushing the boundaries in all aspects, I crown Annie Queen of the Tank Queendom.

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