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BB1987
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: April 18th, 2019, 2:49 pm
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It's just photoshop:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/worldar ... 1-s40.html

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: April 18th, 2019, 3:35 pm
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Lol, instantly defensive remark about Norwegian military over a joke photo ;)

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: April 23rd, 2019, 5:58 pm
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Two notice from the news, that I have translated directly through google.translate, These two notice explain what they have decided, before they have announced anything:
Quote:
New frigate over the state budget
The government has decided that the money for a new government quarter (aftermatch from the Oslo bombing) and frigate repairs must be collected within the state budget, and not by extra withdrawals from the oil fund, Dagens Næringsliv (Norwegian economy news paper) reports. The proposal to raise money outside the state budget came at the government-enlargement in January.
Quote:
Navy considering selling the steel
- The Armed Forces bought HNoMS "Helge Ingstad" and equipment on board for NOK 4.3 billion.
- In the accounts, the frigate's value is written down by NOK 2.2 billion.
- At the same time, they write that it is difficult to determine the value exactly before they have a condition report in place. They expect it to be ready by the end of April.
- They are also saying: "It should be considered, whether parts of the frigate can be used for the remaining vessels, or whether it is possible to sell the steel"

For me it looks like they have decided, HNoMS Roald Amundsen and HNoMS Maud is operating with double crew, to compensate for the loss of the frigate. The disadvantage of this is that HNoMS Roald Amundsen will wear out faster than planned. for me, since the class is close to it's half life (all frigates are going into MLU in the next few year), I would have considered push forward future frigate program a little bit, shorten the career for the frigates and sell them to a NATO member, It would be to expensive to operate to totally different class of frigate for Norway. But nah. will anyway be interesting to see what they decide to do.

my little rambling is over, boys!


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: May 9th, 2019, 5:32 pm
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the report on the frigate hull have come in:

Apparently they have managed to lift the frigate without damaging the hull or bend it. it's in perfect condition, except some "scratches!"

They have also managed to save some of the electronics. Navanti recommend replacing the main engine, it's possible to get the old engine working again, but they recommend replacing due to you would then get a guarantee on the engines.


The final report will come before summer and be used as a part of the decision making on what to do next.


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: May 13th, 2019, 5:18 pm
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on Wednesday the latest update on HNoMS HI will be released to the media, but documents one of the news page have managed to get hold of, say the cost of repairing the frigate can cost as much as 1.4 billion,- US dollar (1.3 billion,- EURO). building a new would be cheaper and building a new class would be even cheaper.


Originally the frigate costed 490+- million,- US dollar (2009)


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HNoMS Helge Ingstad have collidedPosted: November 8th, 2019, 6:18 pm
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Now the report from Norwegian "accident investigation board" have come out. the report is long as a year, but I'll try to make it short. I could write a book out of this report, But short version, there is a lot of psychology in to the picture of this, specially on the frigate.

The short version is that there are no one factor that are at fault, but it is multiple factors that applies to this accident. There is 5 main things that went wrong:

1. The crew of the frigate didn't realize what they saw, was a tankship

- Around 15 minutes before the accident, was the crew change on the bridge.
- During the crew exchange, both the outgoing and incoming duty officer, saw that there was a luminous object at the Sture terminal in Øygarden.
- They thought what they saw was part of the Sture terminal, or something else that had nothing to say to the voyage.
- They did not realize that it was a 250 meter long tanker, which was getting ready to depart from the quay and straight towards them, loaded with oil.

2. The frigate sailed without AIS
[ img ]

- AIS deactivated when traveling in congested water, but Helge ingstad is also equipped with Kongsberg warship-AIS (it's a encrypted AIS) this one would send out an alarm if something is getting close, it was also deactivated.

3. The traffic center forgot to plot the frigate
[ img ]

- Just over an hour and a half before the collision, the warship sailed into the operating area of the Fedje Navigation Center.
- They called Fedje as they are supposed to do, and said they were coming in from the north.
- What the traffic operators at Fedje was supposed to do, was to plot the vessel name and other information about the ship on the radar so that they could follow it even if it did not send an AIS signal.

They forgot.

- Thus, the traffic operator could not respond to "Sola TS" when he asked which vessel was coming at them at full speed.

4. The tanker deck light made it impossible to see the lanterns
[ img ]

- As the "Sola TS" departed from the quay, powerful floodlights lit up the entire giant deck. The ship was going out into open water, and the crew needed light to clear their "equipment" and make the deck clear for travel.
- The powerful floodlights made it difficult for incoming vessels to see the lanterns, the safest way to recognize a vessel.
- When the pilot tried to signal to the oncoming frigate that there was danger going on with a so-called aldis lamp, no one on the bridge saw it, for the same reason.

5. The bridge crew on the frigate had too little experience
[ img ]

- The officer on duty of the warship had had nine months of training before being cleared as a commander... seven months before the accident.
- Among the six people he brought with him on the bridge was a training officer under training and five enlisted.
- According to the AIBN, the lack of experience among the crew on the bridge helped them not to change their understanding of the situation:
They had decided that the luminous object, which was in fact "Sola TS", was not something they needed to take into account .

- in addition there is also talk about fatigue among the crew after the big NATO exercise that was held in Norway just then.

video that have been posted, based on surveillance video footage from TS Sola + crew explanation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRazvXwZQKk
https://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/i/OpX1 ... wsource=cl


But the main culprit is:
Quote:
misconception of the situation of the bridge crew on HNoMS Helge Ingstad
It's a bit psychology in this: when you have decided on something "is", it's hard to realize something that "is", "isn't"!
Quote:
- To understand the accident, you do not get beyond the concept of situational understanding and "confirmation bias" - that is, the first opinion confirms itself as a fact, says department head Dag S. Liseth of the State Accident Investigation Board
Thus the frigate continued to travel at 17 knots and had focus on 3 smaller ships heading north, plotting a course, keeping them to port at safe distance. At the same time "Sola TS" due to it size decide to go a more direct rout out than normal procedure... that is to cross the "traffic sone" and first then turn on to the correct course. But at the same time a tank ship as big as Sola TS, doesn't really want to cross a fjord due to it size and difficulty at move/turn and get up at speed.


side note: The Helmsman on Helge Ingstad did saw and realize that those lights was Sola TS. but as a helmsman he has his own task. He believed that the lockout had informed the duty officer on the bridge. He clearly believed the crew and officers had full control of the situation.... this was 13 minutes before the accidents. He didn't realize that the bridge crew and officer believed that Sola TS wasn't moving. At the same time the two officer on the bridge at the moment was standing at the radar screen, discussing if what they saw was a ship or just the terminal...



The Navy says that they have come to the same conclusion as the Transport investigation board. And they are changing many of there routine and how they train up crews and officers. They says, this will change the Navy.


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