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Demon Lord Razgriz
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 22nd, 2010, 7:03 pm
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Given that the people of the UK spend more on drinking at pubs than the UK spends on Defense, you'd think they'd cut something else than Defense. :/

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rifleman
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 23rd, 2010, 9:57 am
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I've also heard that the systems integration on the MRA.4s isn't finished yet.

The MRA.4 took the old fuselages and put new wings on them. That's an expensive proposition in the first place. And with the Nimrod force now dead, any LRMPA would be better than what the UK has now.
Most of the systems have been integrated in MR2's just retired. The aircraft are converted, wired and systems fitted its also paid for so cheapest option for a LRMPA for the UK is Nimrod. The situation s the RAF want the funding to waste on tornado upgrade for its final hurrah.

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Finfan
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 23rd, 2010, 3:47 pm
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Demon Lord Razgriz wrote:
Given that the people of the UK spend more on drinking at pubs than the UK spends on Defense, you'd think they'd cut something else than Defense. :/
Spending money at a pub is productive to the economy and raises the general wealth of the world. The government pursuing unprofitable spending reduces the amount of wealth in the world. If by per your implied suggestion, the British government put a heavier tax on alcohol, then whilst in the short term it could probably afford both aircraft carriers, in the long run it would see brute tax revenue drop overall (although it might increase as a % of nation wealth).


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Philbob
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 24th, 2010, 1:25 am
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so what should they be spending money on then? If it was my choice i would go scaled for population, full spectrum military, over entiltments for ungrateful foreigners and welfare for people who dont want to work.

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Hood
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 24th, 2010, 9:22 am
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The only worth commentng on is Nimrod. Why did it take so for the government to cancel the MRA.4 programme? It's been dragging on for over a decade, on and on and on and on, money being wasted all over the place and poor management. I don't think the overall idea was that bad but somewhere along the line the industry managed to screw it up. So why now when the first production MRA.4's does the govenrment cancel the contract? Surely it could have done that five-six years ago or earlier and saved a packet of money? Surely that is the biggest political and economical cock-up of the review so far.

Using that logic they'll cancel the carriers when the ships are 99% complete on the eve of the first seagoing trial!

Having no MRA capability (other than a Herk flying around looking at seagulls) is dangerous for the Trident force when the Navy knows the Russian Akula's etc are back and have been trying to track the Vangaurd subs in the Atlantic. Also it impairs long-range SAR operations and overseas anti-piracy patrols when its becoming such a big problem in the media. Don't get me started on buying Rivet Joint too...

I wouldn't be surprised if the FAA is disbanded within a few years and merged with the RAF. Likely the F-35 fleet will be a joint RAF-FAA force anyway so why not make more savings and have it a totally RAF run operation with carrier-capable pilots given RAF ranks instead?

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rifleman
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 24th, 2010, 1:00 pm
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Hood agree with your thoughts on Fleet air arm what i'm reading on other forums is a great deal of ambiguity on Merlin HC3/3a with Airforce appearing to be briefed that Merlin will be staying an airforce asset and Navy being briefed its being transfared in 2016 & begining to be Marinised in 2018 (something the AF is briefing is be cancelled)
There was a story in Daily telegraph on 17/10/10 that Nimrod had been grounded for safety reasons!
With the cancallation on Nimrod i'm waiting to see the sugestion from the RAF that its Air electronic ops from nimrod fleet are integrated into Merlin fleet. As the first move for the RAF to absorb whats left of the fleet Air arm. hopefully the navy will say yes as long as they transfare to the RN not stay RAF. And when F35 eventually appears it does so as a RN asset as carrier avation is so specalised and with numbers being orderd it would make more sense.

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Praetonia
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 24th, 2010, 4:32 pm
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Should abolish the RAF instead. It is a useless service; its only modern purpose is to introduce pointless political and command problems.


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Finfan
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 24th, 2010, 4:46 pm
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Philbob wrote:
so what should they be spending money on then? If it was my choice i would go scaled for population, full spectrum military, over entiltments for ungrateful foreigners and welfare for people who dont want to work.
Reduce spending and cut taxes. Armed Forces are pretty irrelevant in a world of integrated supra-regional supply chains. No developed or moderately-developing nation can be attacked/invaded due to the massive economic loss that would rise from it. To quote Bastiat, "When goods do not cross borders, soldiers will".


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Philbob
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 24th, 2010, 6:18 pm
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globalization will only serve as a barrier to warfare for so long Finfan, it would be a very dangerous mistake to think that has changed in the era of global makets and online social networks.

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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: R.N. Carriers, will they be built?Posted: October 24th, 2010, 6:27 pm
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Philbob wrote:
globalization will only serve as a barrier to warfare for so long Finfan, it would be a very dangerous mistake to think that has changed in the era of global markets and online social networks.
While there were no online social networks pre-WW1, the level of global trade relative to global GDP took a nose dive with WW1 and has only recently really recovered.

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