Shipbucket

May I ask about the differences between this newly launched carrier and the original soviet Varyag? THanks and cheers.

That is a baseline. Without a top down or good oblique view, all that can be determined so far is that the Chinese flattop is about 10 to 15 meters longer than a Kusnetzov, has a load displacement about 10,000 metric tonnes greater in mass and volume, is probably designed with similar Russian deck handling and hardstand parking arrangements. Her blast deflectors locations appear to show that the zero spots in front of the ski-ramp are much better thought out. The Chinese probably learned that one from the Brazilians.

I have always wondered about the Kuznetsov's lifts arrangement, and with the type 001A, I am still puzzled. Neither the Russians nor the Chinese seem to follow British practice for a ski-ramp carrier with the aircraft servicing and feeder circuit. It seems more FRENCH than anything else and that is not a good thing. French practice is two lift CATOBAR, not STOBAR.

They actually seem to be with about a meter or so difference of length for the Kuznetsov, less than 2000t difference for displacement, comparing the satellite imagery the only difference seems to be the sponsons and the island

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The Chinese are listing the Type 001A as being about 70,000 short tons displacement and 1038 feet lemgth to the Kuznetsov's 60,000 tons and 1001 ft. The flight deck is certainly wider.

That's more than 10% hull volume difference which should be expected if the Chinese claim their airgroup will be 60 fixed and rotary wing aircraft as opposed to the 50 possible on the Russian flattop.

Pretty sure those are the old figures for length and it seems a huge increase for displacement as they've said 50k standard 70k loaded which makes me think it's a spitball figure as the ships have pretty much the same length and beam. However you said short tons which would be correct as it's only a 2000t increase over the Kuznetsov but all the sources seem to say metric tonnes which concerns me.

Have a gander here

TAKR Admiral Kuznetsov and Type 001A "17"

All measurements of the flight deck are with 1% of each other

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"Loitering on the High Seas" (Named after the good ship Rodondo)
There's no such thing as "nothing left to draw" If you can down 10 pints and draw, you're doing alright by my standards

At this point there are no 100% reliable data available for 001A's dimensions and displacement. Only thing we can do at this point is to compare the satellite images which indeed indicates that the overall size is the same as with Varyag/Liaoning which pretty much gives us the limits and parameters to speculate on its air group and such. Aside the slightly reduced island size, the overall hull desing and layout is identical with the Project 11435/6 design so it also underlines the similarity of the theoretical capacity of the ship similar to its Soviet siblings.

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This thread over at Secretprojects is pretty good and has some analysis of the size issue.
Its clear the Chinese have made some improvements and modifications of the basic Soviet design, of course we have no idea what internal changes have been made to the hangar spaces or machinery.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/i ... 19.45.html

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Sigh. I have to agree with Gallivainan that it "appears" the same size after some photo scaling, but PLAN sources continue to insist that this flattop is 10 meters longer and 3-4 meters wider than the Kuznetsov. That would be within photo-scale error even from good comparative photos. We need a Sukhoi on the flight deck for an exact size scale measurement comparator and we do not have that yet.

The PRC is known to boast, but so far they have never outright "lied" about such measurement details. Just about the sources of "indigenous" designs. And even then you have to "allow" that their definition of "original", where they had to change something a bit to fit Chinese industrial or technical practice does fit their idea of "original" design. Like their fusion of American signal management technology and Franco-Italian-German canard aircraft control logics to produce some of their latest aircraft designs.

So, I am not quite convinced that this bird farm is a pure dimensional carbon copy of the Lionang.

I note with interest that the Chinese when they refurbished the Varyag, rebuilt the flight deck to its original 75 meters width. The Varyag's original was also 75 meters, but the Kuznetsov's after the Russian MLU is 72 meters? So there is that discrepancy. I am not comparing the type 001A to Varyag, but to Kuznetsov. Also remember the Kuznetsov is longer than either the Varyag as built or the Liaoning as rebuilt. 1 meter according to the Russians.

Kuznetsov's draft at "standard load" (half fuel and ordnance USN definition) is supposed to be 10 meters. (estimated to fit inside Murmansk harbor). The Chinese claim 9 meters draft on Liaoning which makes sense after they ripped out the heavy Russian engines and re-engined with lighter more modern marine steam turbines.

With proven Russian dimensional variations between Varyag and Kuznetsov as built, the point I hope to impart is that the Chinese in order to refine Russian flight deck layout, hard stand space, lift positioning, the different two piece island (which is still too big), draft (they seem to prefer wider shallower hull forms) may well have wound up with a wider fatter longer hull. And that longer flight deck.

I think the PLAN were hoping to hit the ground running on this one, essentially a different hull and ship only bearing a vague similarity to Liaoning but the PLAN isn't really big on relying indigenous innovation if they can help it. After all they received something like 40t of blueprints which should give them an exact idea how to build one but they are still learning the ropes.

I'd wager this isn't an exact dimensional carbon copy of Liaoning but within a meter or so, again they won't be straying far from what they know works in terms of island wind shadows and deck handling.

I've seen only a handful of documents suggesting they changed Liaoning's power plant, my understanding is the maintenance crew that came in when the ship construction halted, coated the engine with grease to preserve it. Which I guess means the Liaoning could have inherited the same dicky ticker as Kuznetsov. I have a suspicion they stripped the hull of something else to lighten the standard load.

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Work list(Current)
Miscellaneous|Victorian Colonial Navy|Murray Riverboats|Colony of Victoria AU|Project Sail-fixing SB's sail shortage
How to mentally pronounce my usernameRow-(as in a boat)Don-(as in the short form of Donald)Dough-(bread)
"Loitering on the High Seas" (Named after the good ship Rodondo)
There's no such thing as "nothing left to draw" If you can down 10 pints and draw, you're doing alright by my standards

They may have gutted some of the internal armor. As to the island on the type 001A, they seem to have moved it further astern compared to the Russian Kuznetsov which corresponds to American practice, but why? Will that not affect the exhaust and intake runs? And it is a different island. I sure hope they wind tunneled it. I shudder when I think of the QE II monstrosity and pilots landing a trap on that bird farm.