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moxica
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 3rd, 2011, 3:23 pm
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Please no trash talk about people now we leave that to others :-)


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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 3rd, 2011, 3:31 pm
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Yeah, keep it civil lads...

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rifleman
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 7th, 2011, 11:08 am
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From the reports I read on Nimrod on various sites there were 700 safety issues.
As to our elderley escort problem there has been massive reductions to the number of escorts the Royal Navy has they have sacrificed capability to get the aircraft carriers.
However if the Government ordered type 26 in the next few months would the ship building capacity be there to run the CVF program & a frigate or destroyer program in the UK?

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darthpanda
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 10th, 2011, 11:26 pm
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I am soooo sick of the hypocrites of the Western Democracies, what are we stand for??
1) Human rights
2) Democracy
3) Rule of Law
Now the Gaddafi gangs (don't call them soldiers, there are just criminals) bomb and kill anyone at will, what do we do? nothing!
We needs some back bone! For me it is 4 June 1989 all over again.

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Portsmouth Bill
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 11th, 2011, 3:04 pm
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Well, you've said it shipmate; but when did what is morally right ever count? Though not the same scenario, this one is shaping up to be the equivalent of the Bosnia debacle, when the world watched as people got slaughtered, until it became unbearable not to intervene. And yes, I've read and listened to all the arguments for and against interevention, and we just have to accept that the Libyan people will not be helped directly to defend themselves against their dictator. And of course, we all still want the oil, so once the dust settles it will be 'business as usual' :twisted:


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darthpanda
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 11th, 2011, 8:02 pm
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Portsmouth Bill wrote:
Well, you've said it shipmate; but when did what is morally right ever count? Though not the same scenario, this one is shaping up to be the equivalent of the Bosnia debacle, when the world watched as people got slaughtered, until it became unbearable not to intervene. And yes, I've read and listened to all the arguments for and against interevention, and we just have to accept that the Libyan people will not be helped directly to defend themselves against their dictator. And of course, we all still want the oil, so once the dust settles it will be 'business as usual' :twisted:
I understand that morally count for nothing in Realpolitik, but the Western politicians make use a laughing stock. all the time talking about moral high ground, but when they really have to take action.........

BTW it is in our(European) interests to support the Libyan people, if Gaddafi do win. Italy and Malta will flooded with refugees, mainland Europe will have to take more refugees(greatest fear of Right-wing parties) just like it during the Yugoslavian conflicts.
I always have been supporter of Obama, but men! he lack the balls of Reagan!

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Hood
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 11th, 2011, 8:29 pm
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What's the alternative Darth?
An invasion by the "Western Democaracies" like what happened in Iraq, the imposition of a weak pro-Western government, the lingering senseless slaughter of our troops by those who see the West as occupiers for the next ten years? There have been a million deaths in Iraq since 2003. I don't call that progress and I don't think at the crunch the Libyans want to be under the dominance of the West or a future like that any more than they want the current regime to continue. There are dozens of other criminal governments killing their own people but we don't hear the democracies making too much noise about that either.
Democracy is not something to be imposed on everyone by the "enlightened West", we moan enough about the corrupt morons in the European Parliament and the governments running our own nations. We wouldn't really want them to triumph or blow their own trumpets anywhere else and nor would we trust their motives either.

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MitcheLL300
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 11th, 2011, 8:42 pm
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Hood.
People there (civilians) gained weapons. They hate the government, and they lost many.
What do you think when kaddafi is dead?
They continue.

The whole country is ruined, and will be like south africa with those rebels. It's there to at this moment.

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darthpanda
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 11th, 2011, 9:16 pm
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Iraq was a mistake, I understand sometime you have no choice (better the devil you know). Our corrupted politicians and weak European Parliament undermined the principle of our "enlightened West". However I am still a believer of Democracies, like Churchill said:
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

At lease we should impose a No-fly zone, give the Libyan people a chance. Libya is just too close to Europe to lets them do what ever they want, if we do not help them. the next option is turn to radical Islam to fight Gaddafi.

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: HMS Cumberland evacuating from LibyaPosted: March 11th, 2011, 9:28 pm
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If we impose a no-fly zone we risk undermining the rebels rather shaky political platform.
I know this sounds brutal, but in order to get a stable Libya, the rebels needs to win this with as little western help as possible.

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