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Kiwi Imperialist
Post subject: Re: Fifth Generation Fighter ChallengePosted: February 23rd, 2021, 7:30 am
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orangepine wrote: *
[This contest entry is based on my Kingdom of Sweden AU where literally everything is the same as the present with the exception of the development of manned flight.]

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Saab 41 side and front view with ground crew.

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Saab 41 of the Martyrs of Gothenburg Squadron during the War on Christmas.

The image(s) above represent a Fighter-Dinosaur (FD) Scale Saab 41 “Hamza” 5th Generation Fighter, as designated by the Swedish Arab Air Force, which defines Fighter Generations as follows:

1st gen: Unassisted flight (jumping from a cliff)
2nd gen: Unsuccessful assisted flight (da Vinci’s flying machine)
3rd gen: Retarded/unpowered flight (early parachute)
4th gen: Lighter than air flight (hot air balloon)
5th gen: Domesticated flight (pterodactyl riders)

The Saab 41 is a single seat super maneuverable fighter with naturally selected low observable markings and sensor fusion/networking via vocal shrieks. Hamzas use quad-redundant optical tracking to find and track targets. Additionally, the Saab 41 is equipped with an olfactory analysis organ which is especially useful on the Finnish border during night operations. Saab 41s are bred for combat, which includes such techniques as reading of The Art of War during mating.

While Saab 41 pilots may complain about relatively low maximum speeds, the Hamza enjoys unparalleled maneuverability with a stall speed of 0 knots per hour. Swedish Arab Air Force pilots are extensively trained in Manokan tactics in order to compensate for the design quirks of the Saab 41. These tactics include using reverse force to store thrust, which can then be unleashed during a turning fight to regain energy. It is due to the Hamza’s excellent WVR combat abilities that it is referred to as the M4 Sherman of the Sky.

Saab 41s can be equipped with a mix of air to air and air to ground ordnance including spears, small rocks, rocks, and big rocks. A typical Saab 41 multi-mission loadout, for operations such as escorting migrant caravans to Malmo, would include two spears and two rocks. Currently, feasibility studies are being conducted to determine whether the Hamza would be able to carry really big rocks or even logs for strategic bombing.

The Saab 41 has been a moderate export success and is currently in service with the Kingdom of Sweden, the Brandenburg Caliphate, and the United Arab Emirates.
I am a great fan of the Saab 41 depicted during the War on Christmas, and your creativity in general. Unfortunately, I must disqualify your entry. It violates Challenge Rule 7: "All drawings should be in FD scale, and follow the same drawing and shading rules as official Shipbucket styles." The Shipbucket Style Guide & Standards Manual calls for the outline of any depicted ship to be outlined in black, and this has carried across the FD scale art as the three preceding entries show. You have outlined your figures in black, but not your animals and other equipment. I do understand that black lines can be limiting in smaller scales, such as FD. However, we try to maintain a cohesive style. Furthermore, while I have granted some leniency to imaginative boundary-breaking entries in the past, I did encourage community members hoping to push the definition of 'fifth generation fighter' to ask first.


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orangepine
Post subject: Re: Fifth Generation Fighter ChallengePosted: February 23rd, 2021, 11:56 am
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Kiwi Imperialist wrote: *
I am a great fan of the Saab 41 depicted during the War on Christmas, and your creativity in general. Unfortunately, I must disqualify your entry. It violates Challenge Rule 7: "All drawings should be in FD scale, and follow the same drawing and shading rules as official Shipbucket styles." The Shipbucket Style Guide & Standards Manual calls for the outline of any depicted ship to be outlined in black, and this has carried across the FD scale art as the three preceding entries show. You have outlined your figures in black, but not your animals and other equipment. I do understand that black lines can be limiting in smaller scales, such as FD. However, we try to maintain a cohesive style. Furthermore, while I have granted some leniency to imaginative boundary-breaking entries in the past, I did encourage community members hoping to push the definition of 'fifth generation fighter' to ask first.
Thank you for the kind words but I must protest and appeal this disqualification on the following grounds:

1) There remains time before March 4 to cure any alleged deficiencies.
2) Without admitting to any alleged deficiencies, I have updated my post to include black lines.
3) Any deviation from official Shipbucket style drawing and shading rules should be penalized in scoring, not via outright disqualification.

I understand now that "FD scale" does not refer to "Fighter-Dinosaur scale" but rather to "Forum Defensia scale", an esoteric Italian pixel art methodology, and will conform any future contest entries to these standards.


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Kiwi Imperialist
Post subject: Re: Fifth Generation Fighter ChallengePosted: February 24th, 2021, 9:31 am
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Joined: December 10th, 2014, 9:38 am
orangepine wrote: *
Kiwi Imperialist wrote: *
I am a great fan of the Saab 41 depicted during the War on Christmas, and your creativity in general. Unfortunately, I must disqualify your entry. It violates Challenge Rule 7: "All drawings should be in FD scale, and follow the same drawing and shading rules as official Shipbucket styles." The Shipbucket Style Guide & Standards Manual calls for the outline of any depicted ship to be outlined in black, and this has carried across the FD scale art as the three preceding entries show. You have outlined your figures in black, but not your animals and other equipment. I do understand that black lines can be limiting in smaller scales, such as FD. However, we try to maintain a cohesive style. Furthermore, while I have granted some leniency to imaginative boundary-breaking entries in the past, I did encourage community members hoping to push the definition of 'fifth generation fighter' to ask first.
Thank you for the kind words but I must protest and appeal this disqualification on the following grounds:

1) There remains time before March 4 to cure any alleged deficiencies.
2) Without admitting to any alleged deficiencies, I have updated my post to include black lines.
3) Any deviation from official Shipbucket style drawing and shading rules should be penalized in scoring, not via outright disqualification.

I understand now that "FD scale" does not refer to "Fighter-Dinosaur scale" but rather to "Forum Defensia scale", an esoteric Italian pixel art methodology, and will conform any future contest entries to these standards.
I appreciate the fact that you added black lines to your work. You have successfully rectified the style issues I discussed in my last post. However, as I subsequently alluded to, your entry fails to satisfy the sole design requirement of the challenge. It does not depict a fifth generation fighter, even if we stretch the commonly accepted interpretation as challenge participants often do. I do not wish to impinge on your imagination, but I still feel compelled to disqualify your entry. You do not have to remove it from this thread. It will simply be absent from the final poll. Please do submit another, more appropriate entry if you have the time. With your skills, you could easily challenge the people who normally appear at the top of the results table.


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kvasius
Post subject: Re: Fifth Generation Fighter ChallengePosted: February 25th, 2021, 11:58 pm
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Joined: May 9th, 2018, 5:06 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Avro/Hawker Cyclone

Cyclone is a twin-engine, twin-seater fifth-generation multirole combat aircraft/air superiorty fighter developed by the joint effort of Avro Canada and Hawker Siddeley following the new British Air Ministry specifications NSR.7234 for a plane, capable of replacing most current fighter airframes in service. Designed in a balanced, albeit in typically British manner of cutting some corners, the plane combines a sophisticated electronic suite with a decent maneuverability capabilities at the cost of supercruise capacity.

First spotted in the air in 2016, Cyclones officially first entered service in the Fleet Air Arm in 2017 as Cyclone FG.1, first issued to 807. and 870. Naval Air Squadrons, both operating within Home Fleet's carrier force. Royal Air Force adopted it as Cyclone F.2 two years later with initial deliveries to 617. Squadron, RAF. The plane received universal praise for it's reliability and ease of flight, however, weapon officer's serving on the plane have stated the slight awkwardness in using select missile types. For now all orders on the plane have been stated to be reserved only for the member states of either the Imperial Federation or Imperial Commonwealth, despite peaking interest from several nations aligned with UK, such as Roman Republic and their spherelings, however it remained unanswered so far.

As far as it's weapon capacity goes, for internal carriage, Cyclone posesses a single internal weapon bay nested between the engines and four smaller weapon bays near the main gear wheels (in fact, all four smaller bays have to be opened for the gear to be able to retract). Main weapon bay is able to fit a variety of weapons ranging from the modernized Sky Top BVRAAM intermediate range air-to-air missiles, Brimstone AGMs and even ALARM SEAD missiles, while smaller weapon bays are mostly used to mount SRAAM Mk.IX IR missiles (OTL ASRAAM), as well as unique to this aircraft, aerial Starstreak weapon system. Available in both air-to-air as well as air-to-ground variants, the system, derived from Starstreak SAM by principle, it utilizes similar guidance principle to create a ordnance system that is hard to detect and avoid, even at the cost of expanded costs and workload on WSO. The plane is also armed with two ADEN Mk.V 25mm autocannons, firing standard Imperial 25x138 ammunition.

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WesleyWestland
Post subject: Re: Fifth Generation Fighter ChallengePosted: February 27th, 2021, 4:20 pm
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WestGroup WF-55, Westlandian fifth generation fighter jet.

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The Knightley Aerospace Division of WestGroup plc presents the all new WestGroup WF-55 fifth generation fighter jet! Designed in response to a request from the Westlandian Air Force for a lightweight, all-weather multirole fighter aircraft to replace the dependable WestGroup WF-47 Buzzard III currently in service, the WF-55 was designed with significant input from WAF fighter pilots, maintenance crews and commanding officers alike. The WF-55 is to become the first stealth fighter in Westlandian service, using technology proven on the WestGroup WB-74 Vindicator stealth bomber.

Powered by a single Burgess TR.115-185A reheated turbofan that provides up to 185 kN of thrust, the WF-55 can reach speeds exceeding Mach 1.5 at altitude whilst boasting a longer range than its predecessors. The single pilot is assisted by modern electronic systems to decrease workload compared to earlier types, and the aircraft's stealth characteristics makes it difficult for the enemy to engage. The WF-55 carries its payload in internal weapons bays to maintain stealth, though underwing pylons can also be fitted depending on the mission, for a total payload of up to 8 tonnes. A 20 mm rotary cannon is also fitted.

The WF-55 is currently undergoing flight testing with the WAF and is expected to be accepted into service some time next year largely because it was the only design to be submitted. If selected, the WF-55 will likely enter service as the Peregrine II, after the Knightley K 126 Peregrine of 1944. A carrier-borne variant is also being worked on, with carrier trials planned to commence later this year. The WF-55 is expected to sell for ₩175 million each (approx. US $106 million).

Thus far, pilot feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. Test pilots have described the aircraft as 'a joy to fly', praised the comfortable seating position and excellent visibility, as well as the flight management system. Media reports of project delays and cost overruns are largely exaggerated and do not represent the views of WestGroup plc or the WAF. The WestGroup WF-55 has set a new standard for military aviation, and is expected to serve the WAF efficiently and reliably for many years to come.


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Fifth Generation Fighter ChallengePosted: February 27th, 2021, 4:47 pm
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VEB Dresden VJ-5 'Flatpack'

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With the economic reforms of the late 1980s the Eastern Bloc began to modernise and change quite radically. One important step was the USSR giving East Germany more opportunity to develop its own weapon systems once again. VEB Dresden began with an agile 4th-generation fighter in the shape of the VJ-1 and from that the VJ-3 followed in small numbers. In 2012 with NATO air forces increasingly switching to the Lockheed Martin F-35, East Germany and Poland agreed to co-develop a new single-engined tactical fighter in the absence of such an aircraft from the USSR. Indeed the VVS looked at buying 500 but soon followed its own projects instead.

The East Germans were still heavily reliant on Soviet technology, most of the RAM materials, engine and radar came from Soviet sources but East Germany developed the VJ-5's ECM and EW systems with input from Poland, as well as the IRST and visual sighting systems. The result was a low-cost fighter, not quite as capable as the F-35 but certainly able to provide a precision strike platform and offer a stealthy air defence asset for escorting strike packages. The indigenous RR-2 long-range AAM was integrated as was the new RR-3 agile IR-guided AAM for dogfighting.

PZL in Poland manufactured the wings and several parts were fabricated in Romania as well, although that nation did not in the end buy the VJ-5. The first of six prototypes flew in 2017 and the type entered frontline service in 2021. East Germany managed to fund 60 aircraft and Poland received 36, Bulgaria purchased just 6. Finland was one early export user, choosing the type in 2021 and buying 30 airframes. The only other main sales success was South Asia where Vietnam and Indonesia both acquired 24 aircraft each during the early 2020s.

General characteristics

Crew: 1 (pilot)
Length: 15.57m
Wingspan: 11.36 m
Height: 2.98 m (undercarriage up)
Empty weight: 13,500 kg
Max. takeoff weight: 27,000 kg
Powerplant: 1x Saturn AL-41F1 turbofan with thrust vectoring, 93.1 kN (20,900 lbf) dry, 147.2 kN (33,100 lbf) with afterburner

Performance

Maximum speed: At altitude Mach M 1.6 supercruise
Combat range: 1,520km on internal fuel
Service ceiling: 50,000 ft

Armament

Cannon: 1x 30mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 800 rounds
2x forward fuselage weapon bays; each capable of carrying 1x R-77 or 1 RR-3 or 1x R-73 AAM in the fighter role or 1x Kh-38 or 1x 250kg bomb/guided bomb in the strike role
2x rear fuselage weapon bays; each capable of carrying 1x RR-2 or 1x R-77 or 1 RR-3 or 1x R-73 AAM in the fighter role or 1x Kh-38 or 1x guided 250kg bomb/ 500kg bomb or 2x 'dumb' 250kg bombs in the strike role

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English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft


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RaspingLeech
Post subject: Re: Fifth Generation Fighter ChallengePosted: February 27th, 2021, 5:43 pm
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I really love the VJ-5 but I'm curious how the GSh-30 in it fits 800 rounds when a Flanker or Fulcrum only carries 150?

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Corp
Post subject: Re: Fifth Generation Fighter ChallengePosted: February 27th, 2021, 6:39 pm
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Not fully happy with my entry but I'm running out of time and not making much in the way of progress. The general concept is Su-34 meets Boeing Bird of Prey as a replacement for F-111. The aircraft design is one I've worked on and off since an ill-fated collab on NS a decade ago. It's one of those things where I essentially start from scratch each time and it has given me a nice glimpse of how my skills have developed over time. I've never been fully happy with any of the attempts (The Boeing Bird of Prey's shape is deceptively hard to draw with the way it's straight angles morph into gradual curves) 3rd image is quick sketch I threw together as a joke without intending to enter but since I've run low on time to draw alternate schemes and we're allowed 3 images I figured I may as well include it.

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A220 Nightingale Stealth Fighter
Statblock:
• Crew: 2, Pilot, WSO
• Length: 23 meters
• Wingspan: 26 meters
• Height: 2.89 meters
• Engine: 2 x Yoyodyne Propulsion low bypass non-afterburning turbofan KN of thrust each
• Top Speed: 900 km/h
• Service Ceiling 12,000 meters
• Combat Radius: 6,000 km
• Ferry range: 14,000 km with supplemental tanks.
• Empty Weight: 25,000 kg
• Loaded Weight: 40,000 kg
• MTOW Weight: 45,000 kg

Payload:
Maximum Weapons load of 8,500 kg
2 Side weapons bays each w/:
-3 x Hardpoints for up to 1100 kg Each
1 Center Weapons Bay w/:
- 1 x Rotary Rack for 4 Weapons up to 2000 kg each
- 2 x Hardpoints for for 200 kg each

Avionics
1 x 3 Panel Conformal AESA Multi-function Radar Set ( 2 nose and 1 tail arrays) (Optimized for Air to Ground functionality, Air-to-Air capability added w/ Block II Software)
1 x Electro Optical targeting system
Misc RWR and other EW systems

The A220 Nightingale is an advanced 5th generation strike fighter. Due to its size, payload and range the Nightingale is often more described as bomber however, the official designation is the seemingly contradictory classification of Strategic Tactical Fighter". Despite the apparent naming mismatch, this classification is accurate and is reflective of the aircraft's two primary users, The Tactical Attack Command's (TAC) Heavy Fighter Wings, and the Strategic Attack Command's (SAC) Strategic Fighter Squadrons. The Heavy Fighter Wings uses the aircraft as a strike aircraft and missile fighter, while the Strategic Fighter Squadrons are equipped for long range nuclear strike missions. The fact that a single air frame was designed to equip both of these Commands is reflective of the aircraft they replaced, the Buzzard Tactical Fighter seeing use in both of these roles. The buzzard was roughly comparable to the American F-111 and was designed as missile fighter with secondary role of tactical strike. Like the F-111 the Buzzard eventually saw it self stretched to perform more strategic nuclear strike although unlike the F-111 and it's canceled B variant, The Buzzard never lost its place as a missile fighter, serving until the early 2000s in the interceptor role along the northern frontier. As a replacement for the Buzzard, it naturally followed that the A220 would be fulfilling both air to air and strike missions

Development for what became the A220 began under the TC-210 program. The TC-210 was a light stealth fighter developed in the Early 90s by multinational coalition to replace first generation stealth strike aircraft such as the F117 Nighthawk. Disagreements over program goals and conflicting requirements led to the Shintari Air Force eventually withdrawing and the subsequent collapse of the project, however the basic technology developed under the program would live on.

At the same time the TC-210 program collapsed, TAC's Buzzard was facing higher than expected wear due to the Southern Insurgency. While poaching low flight hour air frames from SAC's Special Fighter Squadrons was proposed, doing so without providing the command with replacement aircraft would have resulted in an unacceptable downsizing of the squadrons. In addition significant differences between the Tactical and Special Attack versions of the Buzzard would also have required costly refitting in order for Special Attack air frames to perform that the same missions as the Tactical Buzzards and the Tactical Buzzards lacked the PAL interlocks required for the Special Attack missions. An obvious, albeit expensive solution was a new aircraft and a call for proposals was put out.

Initial requirements were vague but included, reduced signature, twin engine, 10,000kg payload, minimum 10,000 Km range, crew of two. Supersonic speed was desired, but not required. (A saving grace for the subsonic A220). Initial interest leaned toward a restart of Buzzard production with minor modifications, however the survive-ability of the Buzzard in contested air space was a major concern and interest shifted towards a low observable design. With the lowest signature of any proposal the A220 design was selected despite the subsonic maximum speed and high projected costs. Development was eventually moved under the Next Generation Aircraft Production Program, with the goal of promoting commonality of systems between the Night Owl flying wing bomber and more conventional Night Eagle air superiority fighter.

While both the Nightingale and the TC-210 are derived the same basic shape (Derived from the Boeing Bird of Prey), the Nightingale program is significantly larger and more strike focused design that also ditches or reduces some of the TC-210s more ambitious features. Gone were such complications as the internal cannon and maneuverability and speed requirements. The strike capabilities however were greatly upgraded, compared to to it's predecessor. While still maintaining side bays of similar size to the TC-210, the A220 added a large center bay featuring a 4 weapon rotary rack along with 2 additional hardpoints. Overall the aircraft has 12 weapon stations although volume may restrict the use of some pylons. Due to weight over runs, the final production aircraft's payload fell short of the planned 10,000kg, at only 8,5000 kgs. In particular larger weapons in the side bays typically preclude the use of the side bays' center-line hardpoints and as a result they are rarely used. In addition, many configurations for the center-line bay may preclude use of the two hardpoints or more often limit the rotary rack from turning without opening the bay doors. Even with these restrictions however the payload is considerable: A typical loadout for an air to air mission is 10 AAAM-M-ER-8 BVR air-to-air missiles and two AAM-S-7 short range air-to-air missiles, for tactical strike up to 6 AGM-1000D, 8 SGBU-500D Glide bombs or 36 SGBU-100D small diameter glide bombs can carried. Other weapons that can be carried for the air to ground mission include most standard guided bombs and cluster munitions. For the special attack missions up 8 SD-Mk 91 or SMD-Mk 99 nuclear weapons can be carried. Unusual for stealth aircraft, the innermost side bay hard points are “wet” to allow for supplemental fuel tanks to be carried.

Due to the long range and extended mission times envisioned for the aircraft, a high emphasis was placed on crew comfort. The aircraft crew sits side by side in an all glass cockpit. A small rest area with food prep and chemical toliet are located aft. Crew access is from a hatch and ladder within the forward landing gear bay.

Propulsion is via two low-bypass non-afterburning turbofans. The engines are buried deep within the aft fuselage. To reduce thermal signature, the exhaust from the engine is routed over heat absorbing tiles and mixed with cold air prior to being leaving the low profile slit outlets. This engine placement, while beneficial for the aircraft's thermal signature is not without issues however as much of the rear of the aircraft needs to be disassembled for engine maintenance.

The A220's Avionics suite features a wide variety of sensors. The primary sensors include the Aircraft's sophisticated Electro-Optical Tracking System capable of tracking targets in both IR and Visual spectrum. A laser designation system allows the aircraft to self illuminate ground targets. A network of sensors around the aircraft provide for 360 degree IRST. The distinctive relatively flat wide shovel nose of the A220 led to one of the more notable advanced features of the A220 which is it's conformal AESA Radar system mounted within the nose and chines. A second aft facing radar is located between the engine exhausts.

The aft radar, due to being nestled between the twin slit exhausts were plauged by heat problems from the engines from the start. Other issues include being overweight with subsequent cuts to payload (Goal was 10k kg payload but final production was only 8000kg,). Initial Electronic warfare capability was reduced due to software issues. The rotary launcher had initial reliability issues(Later resolved). Another notable issue, less relevant to the mission but loathed by the crew was defective seals on the chemical toilet's tank are poor resulting in a foul smell if they were used during a mission.

The first image depicts a standard Nightingale in Measure S-2 "All Weather Grey" along with an assortment of common weapons indicating potential weapons loads. The second image depicts the aircraft landed while the third image depicts what is is likely the most notorious "variant" of the aircraft as originally displayed at the National Air Museum. In the early 2000s the Shintari Air Force's Stealth Aircraft started to "come out of the black", the National Air Meuse um desperately began a campaign to add one of the many prototypes to their collection. The Bureau of Advanced Aircraft Development was not initially receptive to the idea. Prototypes from the various programs were either considered too sensitive for public display or alternatively had no airframes to spare, with all prototypes in active use. Despite these obstacles, the Museum's Curators were insistent on exhibiting a stealth fighter. Any stealth fighter would do they said, it didn't matter the type. Each program office they contacted would politely decline before tossing them off to another program. Eventually they were passed to a currently unknown prankster at the A220 Program, known only by the name of Hugh Jass. The name alone should have been a warning sign but in their excitement this red flag was over looked. Mr Jass gave the curators the phone number of the A220 Project's highly secretive "Hyper Air Vehicle Experiment" (HAVE) Division. Allegedly a group responsible for testing advance variants of the aircraft.

After a lengthy confrere call with the group's manager, Benjamin Dover and the Chief Test Pilot Major Dick Long, the curators were at last promised a stealth fighter for display. The Hyper Air Vehicle Experiment 5-EX prototype, a previously classified variant of the A220 which was used to test advanced stealth technologies which hid the plane not only from radar but also hid it in the IR and visible spectrum. The Curators were given a few conditions, due to the sensitive nature of the aircraft, the display would need to be set up by members of the HAVE team, at night, with the signage provided by them. Despite the unusual request the curators agreed, happy to be able to show of a triumph of national engineering. The list of members of the installation team was provided to the curators. The Team was lead by a Lt Mike Hunt and included esteemed engineers and airman such as Cox Ucker and Pvt Eric Shun. The innocent eyes of the museum staff was seemingly oblivious to the team's odd names and the fact that Lt Hunt had a clearly non-regulation Grouch Marx style mustache. The date of installation was set and the team acted. In the dead of night the team installed the exhibit.

The lead curators had planned a short unveiling ceremony at noon the next day an event which was to include their first look at the aircraft. The aircraft was surrounded by a curtain and when the time came, a rope would be pulled and the aircraft revealed. The first sign of trouble arose in the morning when members of the HAVE office failed to arrive for the unveiling. A frantic call to their office went unanswered. Nevertheless the exhibit had go on. A short speech was given by the lead curator to the gathered press and public then the rope pulled to reveal the aircraft and accompanying sign as depicted. Angry follow up calls to the HAVE Offices failed to connect, with the number seemingly being removed from service. A query through the Bureau of Advanced Aircraft Development and A220 Program offices met with denial that the HAVE Division even existed. The exact culprits of the prank were never publicly identified however the fact that actual spare wheels and forward landing gear spares were used in the prank indicates that the conspiracy extended to high levels of the A220 Program. A Senate Inquiry was launched but concluded without publicly releasing any findings. The 5-EX "prototype" was initially removed from display out of embarrassment, however a later head curator with a much better sense of humor had the "aircraft" moved to outside display and given new, more child friendly signage.


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