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"Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
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Author:  madmike [ August 26th, 2019, 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
wow! and the P.1216.....
Author:  adenandy [ August 28th, 2019, 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
FANTASTIC work Mark :!:

Quick question if I may sir. Will you be producing a deck plan by any chance please old boy :?:
Author:  Blackbuck [ August 28th, 2019, 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
Not for a while, I did intend to but after three successive attempts I gave up.
Author:  adenandy [ August 28th, 2019, 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
Blackbuck wrote: *August 28th, 2019, 9:06 am
Not for a while, I did intend to but after three successive attempts I gave up.
Shame :(

But understandable old chap. But still, one can live in hope ;)
Author:  heuhen [ August 30th, 2019, 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
Caledonia Navy
"the Navy for the people"

L18 class:
https://i.imgur.com/vhr7qDN.png

Caledonia requested from Havok Shipyard an replacement for their aging L18 class Helicopter carrier/support ship. The requirement for the class was simple:

- due to Caledonia many islands, they needed a carrier that could support the people, in disaster.
- operate as an hospital in local areas.
- as an mobile hospital for the many islands people lives on.
- can be combat ready in short period of time.
- more effective stores, for better handling of ammunition and other gods, improve the turnaround time.
- capable to have carrier based fighter jets land on it's deck. but also able to lunch light loaded carrier.
- VTOL sub-class
- limited ASW capability, strengthened with ASW helicopters
- Jet and Diesel powered. max speed of more than 26+- knots, cruise at 16+- knots.
- Use old equipment from other decommissioned ships and upgrade and improve on them

Delta class along with the smaller and more compact, Alpha class, become the backbone of the Navy's helicopter carrier fleet. At the start they would be using Sea Kings, due to the Navy had so many of them, but after some time they would be replaced with Caledonia's own home designed helicopters.

Delta class
Helicopter class, escort, Hospital ship.
subclass: VTOL-carrier
Ordered: 10+3
Build: 3
Canceled: 0
-------------

Dimensions:
Length: 172 meter
Beam: max. 36,27 meter
draft: max. 9.9 meter (standard load)
Displacement: 10000+- tons

Powerplant:
2 x Atech M5J22-X turbine (improved) 45000 hp
2 x Brin 4V10D11 Diesel engine 6000 hp
2 x Brin GE-2V2D4 Diesel engine 1000 hp

Speed:
Max: 28 knots
Standard: 26 knots
Cruise: 16 knots

Crew
from 350 to 820

Armament:
2 x Actech industries 30mm Fast-30-Mk-8LW, AAW
1 x Mk41 32 cell for: RIM-162 ESSM, RIM-66 S-2MR, NLOS-LS
4 x 12.7 mm machine guns

Radar & Sensors
SPS-48 3D radar (Refurbished and upgraded with new electronics)
WM-20 (Refurbished and upgraded with new electronics)
STIR 1.2 EO (Refurbished and upgraded with new electronics)
Alur D2C-series Bow sonar (active/passive)
(towed sonar could be equipped if needed, but it was rarely done)

Aviation
(note! this is not all at once)
- 4 to 15 Sea king's later replaced with New Caledonia Heavy Naval helicopter, when they get available.
- from 2 to 8 Westland lynx or Bell
- from 4 to 15 VTOL
- occasionally would carry up to 20 Hughes NH-530-special, for Special Forces or Comandos

For those that are complaining about everything, because they haven't seen it in the real world.... the sponsons with the small boats inn, isn't part of the hull. If everybody should go: "it can't be done
and it have never been done before... we would never come this far, we would never have managed to land people on the moon, how would want to stay next to a bomb 24/7... but here we are." Live a little. I wonder what people said to the first man building a suspension bridge!

Delta class Helicopter carrier,
[ img ]

Delta class Helicopter and VTOL-carrier
[ img ]

Note! this is and old drawing, that have been refurbished, so it might have some errors!
Author:  acelanceloet [ August 30th, 2019, 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
This drawing is looking pretty nice.... but I have some problems with the design.
- First of all, I see no problem with the boats in the cutouts on the sponsons, this has been done often on many ships of similar size :P
- Where are the vtol jets?
- The air intakes for the gas turbines are arranged a bit weird and seem to be too large
- What year are we talking? you have refurbished versions of Mk 48 Mod 3, which IIRC was ready for deployment in about 1997 (it was never really build, replaced by the Mk 56 VLS which was basically the Mk 48 mod 3 with ESSM canisters and software), which suggests an 2010+ year, while the 57mm guns you have fitted would be about 60 years old by then.......
- The arrestor wires on the CTOL version are very much not in the right spot, you might get issues with aircraft slamming into the stern. Also, no landing guidance equipment at all? what exactly are you planning to land on that short deck? skyhawks or something?
- The STIR 1.2 is even newer then 2010 IIRC, and you refurbished it? so this entire ship is future tech?
- Most of (95%) your inflatable liferafts are forwards of midship, while 60-70% of the crew (in my estimation) will be aft?
- Why does the Mk 48 have foldable railings next to it?
- I am not certain that propeller is really suitable to a gas turbine powered ship.
- The arrangement of the zinc anodes on the stern and rudder does not really follow their realistic placement.
- You have quite a lot of landing boats for a ship that has no amphibious role except for hospital ship. Would this not be better served by just a few boats and the ability to store more in the hangar if needed? right now they cost a lot of volume and are probably rarely used.
Author:  heuhen [ August 30th, 2019, 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
acelanceloet wrote: *August 30th, 2019, 2:34 pm
This drawing is looking pretty nice.... but I have some problems with the design.
adjustment I will happily do :D
Quote:
- First of all, I see no problem with the boats in the cutouts on the sponsons, this has been done often on many ships of similar size :P
just my experience, so I just wanted to be out before the "haters"-comments :lol:
Quote:
- Where are the vtol jets?
I didn't add them on, but I can do. there aren't so many to choose from, but for this type of vessel Harrier are probably the best alternative.
Quote:
- The air intakes for the gas turbines are arranged a bit weird and seem to be too large
it's not only gas turbine intake... but I can remove those on the funnel, and just add a cooling duck for the funnel it self. the air, intake is mostly for crew, I can reduce that in size.
Quote:
- What year are we talking? you have refurbished versions of Mk 48 Mod 3, which IIRC was ready for deployment in about 1997 (it was never really build, replaced by the Mk 56 VLS which was basically the Mk 48 mod 3 with ESSM canisters and software), which suggests an 2010+ year, while the 57mm guns you have fitted would be about 60 years old by then.......
that 56mm isn't them same as Bofors 56mm, but same design idea. But I have a more modern looking version that I can use instead. So easy fix.

Mk48-56 isn't my knowledge area. suggestion on other launcher I can use for AAW. (most of the parts on the ship is taking from other ships that are taken out of service/mothballed), or shall I just be simple and go for a SDLS basic module Mk-41 VLS for NSSM/ESSM, and then just add in a small crane next to it as a reloading at sea... or should I just add an larger service/loading crane on the back of the sponson, for various task.
Quote:
- The arrestor wires on the CTOL version are very much not in the right spot, you might get issues with aircraft slamming into the stern. Also, no landing guidance equipment at all? what exactly are you planning to land on that short deck? skyhawks or something?
I have a double, one far aft, and one on center as a last resort, but seeing videos on the internet on what they are doing when missing.... i'll change it around to 5 at rear.

The main task in that area is to be a secondary landing place for normal carrier jets, when there are no other option, it's nice to have a different alternativ, then ditching in the sea.
Quote:
- The STIR 1.2 is even newer then 2010 IIRC, and you refurbished it? so this entire ship is future tech?
I'll delete some text....
Quote:
- Most of (95%) your inflatable liferafts are forwards of midship, while 60-70% of the crew (in my estimation) will be aft?
shall move them around a little
Quote:
- Why does the Mk 48 have foldable railings next to it?
I don't really know, perhaps because I had something different drawn in there and didn't think about changing the railings.
Quote:
- I am not certain that propeller is really suitable to a gas turbine powered ship.
not perfect, but I tried go fore something around a medium to high speed pitch-changing propeller. But I can do a copy and... from a different vessel you think have a better propeller.
Quote:
- The arrangement of the zinc anodes on the stern and rudder does not really follow their realistic placement.
I had a sink anode on my ruder... but then it's was the only metal thing in the water... except the propeller and other things...
Quote:
- You have quite a lot of landing boats for a ship that has no amphibious role except for hospital ship. Would this not be better served by just a few boats and the ability to store more in the hangar if needed? right now they cost a lot of volume and are probably rarely used.
I'll changing it around to having only three landing boats on starboard side and two work/landing boats on both side, with how many island Caledonia consist of, every landing boats it's nice to have. But for that we do have more specialized vessel

If you have suggestion on parts that would fit in to the taken from older vessel (retired/mothballed/etc.) and been either refurbished/modernized or overhauled
Author:  acelanceloet [ August 30th, 2019, 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
Weapons of choice all depends on the year. Mk 41 self defence length is newer as Mk 48 even for example.
Author:  heuhen [ August 30th, 2019, 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
acelanceloet wrote: *August 30th, 2019, 3:59 pm
Weapons of choice all depends on the year. Mk 41 self defence length is newer as Mk 48 even for example.
I am going for a rather modern vessel, so anywhere after 2000
Author:  Rowdy36 [ August 31st, 2019, 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: "Harrier Carrier" challenge (Sept 2019)
A small escort carrier/ASW carrier:

[ img ]

[ img ]

Design proposals submitted to the Royal Recherche Navy for a small escort carrier, designed with a flexible fit-out to allow it to be built as anything from a bare bones Commando carrier through to an Escort carrier with the weapons and sensors of a high end ASW frigate. The carrier can be equipped with a flexible air group tailored for its mission.

Length: 180m
Beam: 33m
Draft: 7.6m
Crew: 400 crew and 180 aircrew, and up to 450 troops
Speed: 28kn
Range: 7,000nm at 20kn
Armament: 32 cell self-defence length VLS, 2x Guardian 25mm/Starstreak CIWS, VL Brimstone missiles, 4x ASW torpedo tubes, 4x 25mm guns
Air group: Up to 18 (10 in the hangar)

ASW
6 Harriers
10 Cyclone Helicopters

Strike
12 Harriers
4 Cyclone Helicopters
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