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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Some Austrian Torpedo CraftPosted: December 23rd, 2020, 9:34 pm
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Hi again!

Austria-Hungary operated a total of 23 destroyers during the first World War. The first thirteen (one built in Great Britain by Yarrow, later sunk, twelve copies built in Austria for the KuK fleet and one built in Austria for China, confiscated when the war started) were standard 30-knotters with triple expansion machinery; they were identical to the Greek Thyella-class.
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They were completed with low funnels, and an armament of one 66mm and five 47mm guns, plus four 450mm torpedo tubes. During the war they had their funnels raised and were upgunned by switching their 47mm with 66mm guns.
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They were the more numerous, but less well-known of Austria's destroyers. The next ten were known as the Tatra-class. Weighing in at 870 tons, they were best compared with the contemporary French Bisson-class. They carried two 100mm and six 66mm guns and four 450mm torpedo tubes.
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I'm not sure if the Russian source which showed one of them painted black depicted reality or was made up, but it's hard to verify on period photographs, because Austrian pre-war green also looks pretty black on most.
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Unlike German destroyers, who had their own paint schemes, the Austrian ones were painted in the same grey as the rest of the fleet early in the war.
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They were fitted with Machineguns during the war; otherwise, there was little change.
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Among themselves, they could only be told apart by bands around the third funnel. Tatra had one white, Balaton two, Csepel three; Lika had one blue, Orjen two and Triglav three. Lika and Orjen might be the other way around, source photographs are inconclusive.
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Of the original six, four were still available when the war ended. All were ceded to Italy after the war.
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During the war, another four were built and delivered in 1917. They were slightly longer and had different bridges and different covers over their engine rooms. Amongst themselves, they were identical. I've found no photographs showing any ID markings.
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Two were named for lost units of the first group (Triglav and Lika); the others were named Dukla and Uszok. All four survived the war; one was ceded to France, three to Italy.
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Greetings and Merry Christmas to everyone
GD


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Colombamike
Post subject: Re: Some Austrian Torpedo CraftPosted: December 24th, 2020, 8:43 am
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@Garlicdesign
Garlicdesign wrote: *
The next ten were known as the Tatra-class.
The Tatra batch-II have six 66mm (=> 2 on AA mounting)


Although these Tatra class ships look "very good" & balanced, in reality they were very uncomfortable for the 100+ sailors crew.
Very crew-cramped (lack of berth & space-living for the crew)
the machines took a substantial part of the ship
Even the torpedoes storage were very impracticable (torpedoes spares room at the bow !) :?

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@Garlicdesign,
:?: You plan to draw the others :
- Kaiman class.
- the very successfull Tb-74 T class, Tb-82 F class, Tb-98 M class, Tb I class, Tb VII class designs
- the improved Tatra batch II (ordered 22 december 1917 with 2x120mm & 90mm)
...
the hypothetical 1918 designs :
- 2400 tons flotilla leaders (4x150mm, 4x90mm)
- 1000 tons design (2x120mm, 2x90mm)


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Some Austrian Torpedo CraftPosted: December 24th, 2020, 2:16 pm
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Very nice work GD, your usual good work and lovely additions to all the Austro-Hungarian ships you have drawn this year.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Some Austrian Torpedo CraftPosted: December 25th, 2020, 12:06 pm
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Excellent!
(but You are aware You have some lumps of (double-line-y) black pixels here and there? (bridge, around lifeboats, and those things near the bottom of 2nd and 4th funnel) ;)


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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Some Austrian Torpedo CraftPosted: January 16th, 2021, 12:34 pm
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Hi again!

Apart from some 19th century leftovers, the Austro-Hungarian fleet operated a total of 63 modern torpedo boats during the First World War.

The initial class was the 24-strong Kaiman-Class. The type boat was ordered from Yarrow on 1904 and delivered in 1905; it was used as a template for 23 identical copies, 13 by STT/Trieste and 10 by Danubius/Fiume. Displacing 210 tons, they were oceangoing and capable of 26 knots; they carried four 47mm Skoda guns (two on each broadside) and three 450mm torpedo tubes (two abreast behind the bridge, one on the centerline aft). They initially received names, but were redesignated with numbers (including a suffix indicating the building location) in 1913. E meant 'England', T meant 'Trieste' and F 'Fiume'. In sequence, the boats were: Kaiman / 50E, Anaconda / 51T, Alligator / 52T, Krokodil / 53T, Wal / 54T, Seehund / 55T, Delphin / 56T, Narwal / 57T, Hai / 58T, Möwe / 59T, Schwalbe /60T, Pinguin / 61T, Drache / 62T, Greif / 63T, Triton / 64F, Hydra / 65F, Skorpion / 66F, Phönix / 67F, Krake / 68F, Polyp / 69F, Echse / 70F, Molch / 71F, Kormoran / 72F, Alk / 73F.
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During the war, they were retrofitted with w/t; other modifications are not recorded (as far as I know). From 1917, the builders designator was dropped from their pennants, leaving just the number.
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All survived the war; four were ceded to Yugoslavia and commissioned as T9 through T12 (phased out in 1929/30), the others scrapped by the UK in Italy.

While the Kaimans were under construction, a class of first-class torpedo boats half their size were ordered to an entirely domestic design. As usual in the KuK empire, parliamentary approval could not be gained unless half the 12-ship class was built on the Hungarian Danubius yard. These single-screw boats were a successful design; they were fast, handy and seaworthy, being good for 28 knots, although the Hungarian ones listed badly when going at full tilt. Two 47mm guns and two 450mm torpedo tubes were arranged on the centerline, giving the same broadside as the much larger Kaimans. They did not get names, but latin numbers from I to XII.
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The only difference between both groups was the location of the searchlight, which was in front of the funnel on STT units and on the bridge on Danubius boats. Completed in 1909/11 without w/t, all were retrofitted during the war.
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Eleven of twelve units were ceded to Italy after the war; the twelfth boat already defected to the Italians before the war was over after a mutiny. Two served till 1925 before they were scrapped, the rest was scrapped forthwith.

After the Kaiman-class production run was complete, a follow-on class of oceangoing torpedo boats was designed, to be even larger, faster and more seagoing than the already successful Kaimans. These craft also were successful and popular; they could steam at 28 knots and toted two 66mm guns and four 450mm torpedo tubes on the centerline. Size- and performance-wise, they were best compared to the later German A II / III type. A total of 27 were built (eight at STT / Trieste (pennant suffix T) three at CNT / Monfalcone (pennant suffix M) and sixteen at Danubius / Fiume (pennant suffix F). The first units were commissioned in 1913, after the Kaimans had shed their names, and never received names of their own. The STT-built boats 74T through 81T were the shortest of them all and the only ones with a single funnel.
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The Danubius-built boats 82F through 97F had two funnels, lower bridges and a straight stem.
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The last three 98M through 100M (completed earlier than the lower numbered Danubius craft) were the most seaworthy of the lot, with the forward torpedo tubes on forecastle deck level.
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At least one of them had a different mast arrangement, probably retrofitted; I've not found any pictures showing this modification on any of the STT and Danubius boats.
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None of these units were lost during the war, indicating few operational sorties. Of the STT-batch, four were ceded to Yugoslavia after the war (becoming T1 through T4, and four to Rumania, becoming Viforul, Vartej, Vijelia and Zborul. The first three Rumanian units were phased out in 1927, and two of the Yugoslav boats during the 1930s. The three surviving boats saw active service in WWII, the Yugoslav ones with three different operators (they were first captured by Italy, then by Germany). The Danubius-batch was divided between Rumania (Naluca, Zmeul, Fulgerul), Portugal (Zezere, Ave, Cavado, Sado, Liz, Mondego), Greece (Panormos, Proussa, Pergamos) and Yugoslavia (T5 through T8). Many were phased out and scrapped between the wars, but two Rumanian, two Greek and all Yugoslav boats saw active service in World War II. Only one Rumanian and one Yugoslav boat survived the war, both scrapped in the 1950s. The last three were ceded to Greece, becoming Kyzikos, Kios and Kidoniai; all were destroyed in World War II.

Greetings
GD


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Karle94
Post subject: Re: Some Austrian Torpedo CraftPosted: January 16th, 2021, 12:58 pm
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I found this little snippet of info for you: "Torpedo boats were also painted in dark green for most of the war, particularly smaller types. But this appears to be a darker, almost black shade. From 1916 onward, destroyers were painted in the same grey as capital ships and new construction torpedo boats adopted the same colour."

https://thomo.coldie.net/2008/02/20/col ... -warships/


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Some Austrian Torpedo CraftPosted: January 16th, 2021, 2:38 pm
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Lovely additions, very nicely drawn.

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