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Charybdis
Post subject: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 5:57 pm
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Before you post your exocets in my general direction... this is JUST an idea. :idea: It is in no way a criticism of admin staff (or artists). We all recognize the superb job they do to keep SB running smoothly.

With talented and productive artists joining SB all the time, this site is going to get very much bigger in a short space of time. The last upload is a good demonstration of this fact.

There are now over 430 drawings in the Real Designs/Great Britain database alone. Although the database looks organized at first glance, a closer look shows many drawings that should be grouped are here there and everywhere. I think this is a shame and it doesn't do optimum justice to the great drawings that can be found on our site.

Sooner or later this monster will have to be reorganized. :twisted:

Below is a standardized system for naming files I am proposing which could be used throughout the Real Designs DB. Its purpose is to show a lineal progression of each ship type over time, making it easier to locate specific ship drawings.
  • [SHIP TYPE] [YEAR OF CLASS COMMISSION] [CLASS NAME] [ORDER OF UNIT COMMISSION] [UNIT NAME] [YEAR DEPICTED]


    • Here we can decide on an order for the ship type. I suggest using a system like Janes' for the warships i.e. 001 = SSBN, 002 = SN, 003 = SS, 004 = CVN, 005 = CV, 006 = CVL, etc...

      [UNIT TYPE]

      Use a standard system like NATO or USN for example, CVN, DD, DG, FF, FG...

      [YEAR OF CLASS COMMISSION]

      The four digit year that the first unit of the class came into commission.

      [CLASS NAME]

      All in CAPS.

      [ORDER OF UNIT COMMISSION]

      Three digit number of the order that the units of the class came into commission.

      [UNIT NAME]

      Standardized form. First letter Capital the rest lower case.

      [YEAR DEPICTED]

      The four digit year that the unit is depicted in.



      Here is an example of the database system for British aircraft carriers:
      (NOTE: These are not actual files on the DB but just to give an idea.)


      001 SSBN...
      002 SSN...
      003 SS...
      004 CVN (Would not be seen on GB Database)
      005 CV 1917 COURAGEOUS 001 Courageous 1916.png
      005 CV 1917 COURAGEOUS 002 Glorious 1918.png
      005 CV 1917 COURAGEOUS 002 Glorious 1928.png
      005 CV 1917 COURAGEOUS 002 Glorious 1940.png
      005 CV 1917 COURAGEOUS 003 Furious 1938.png
      005 CV 1918 ARGUS 001 Argus 1938.png
      005 CV 1923 HERMES 001 Hermes 1931.png
      005 CV 1924 EAGLE 001 Eagle 1942.png
      005 CV 1938 ARK ROYAL 001 Ark Royal 1938.png
      005 CV 1940 ILLUSTRIOUS 001 Illustrious 1940.png
      005 CV 1940 ILLUSTRIOUS 002 Formidable 1944.png
      005 CV 1940 ILLUSTRIOUS 003 Victorious 1942.png
      005 CV 1940 ILLUSTRIOUS 003 Victorious 1960.png
      005 CV 1940 ILLUSTRIOUS 004 Indomitable 1944.png
      005 CV 1944 IMPLACABLE 001 Implacable 1944.png
      005 CV 1944 IMPLACABLE 002 Indefatigable 1950.png
      006 CVL 1944 COLOSSUS 002 Glory 1955.png
      006 CVL 1944 COLOSSUS 005 Theseus 1951.png
      006 CVL 1944 COLOSSUS 007 Venerable 1948.png
      006 CVL 1944 COLOSSUS 011 Pioneer 1950.png
      007 CVE 1941 AUDACITY 001 Audacity 1941.png
      007 CVE 1941 LONG ISLAND 002 Archer 1941.png

      To add a drawing of HMS Ark Royal in 1975 would be

      005 CV 1951 AUDACIOUS 002 Ark Royal 1975.png

      This would slot in nicely between Glory and Indefatigable... OR

      A drawing of HMS Ark Royal in 1991

      006 CVL 1980 INVINCIBLE 003 Ark Royal 1991.png

      would come between Pioneer and Audacity.

      For commercial ships, it could probably be made a little more simplistic due to lower occurance of drawings of the same class and even the same ship. These could probably come after the warships and auxiliaries...

      I realize that this would be a hell of a job, very tedious and could get confusing at times. I would be happy to commit my time to doing the job, if the forum also thinks its a job that needs doing.

      I also realize that organizing future uploads could be a nightmare, but I believe that the system, once agreed could be made available as a reference.

      So, again, this is just an idea I had. I might be getting it all wrong, as I don't know how the files are stored with relation to the DB webpage. I presume they are all uploaded to a file on a remote server and hyperlinked. :?

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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 6:10 pm
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This content is depreciated.

Ah, well I suppose it's time for me to post this anyway as I've been tweaking the rules for future uploads (as I did everything for the last one, and have been trying to slowly get everything fixed). The following is a modified post from the Admin forum that outlines the naming scheme:
TimothyC wrote:
Sure. The following only will hold for Western Ships - Golly knows more about eastern systems of naming, so would be the preferred person for setting that up.

If the drawing is representing a class of ships, then the format is <Type><Space><Class> where Type is something like DD, DDG, DDH, ect. An example would be:
T-AGOS Stalwart.png
If the drawing is representing a single ship, then the preferred system is <Pennant Number><Space><Ship's name> followed by an optional <Space><Year> if there are more than one version of the ship. In addition, if there are more than one drawing of a ship at a particular year, it is possible to add a single digit extension or a brief bit of text (usually a single word) on the end. The only modifications to this is if the ship is a carrier in European service, an Auxiliary ship, or a Mine-warfare ship. In these cases the type (CVN, CVA, CVE, CVL, CVS, MC, MCM, AOR, AO, AG, AK, ect.) is applied before the Pennant number. Examples would be as follows:
D88 Glasgow 1992.png
CV R86 Implacable 1944.png
DDG-177 Atago.png
BB Musashi 1944 Sibuyan Sea.png
MCM M850 ALKMAAR 2.png
This modification for carriers is put in place to allow for carriers to stick together in the lists - otherwise they would be split between the Cs and the Rs. It also allows for more explanation of what certain support ships do.

If you don't have a pennant number for a ship (such as UK battleships or Civilian ships), then the Pennant number is replaced with just the type as follows:
MV Marjorie C.png
BB Howe 1944.png
Last rule is for ships with MARAD hull type codes - these are much more rare (and mostly US), but are rendered with the Hull code with spaces as the breaks followed by the ship's name:
P6 S4 DS1 United States.png
For upload sessions replacing the spaces with underscores is also possible (as for the next upload session I should be able to write a shell script to reverse that automatically).

Or at least, this is how I have been running the naming convention on the folders that I've been trying to fix. At this point, if something else is wanted, now would be the time to speak up (IE before this batch of files goes live).
This was posted in the admin forum prior to the uploads going live, and there were no complaints. I really should post this in a better and more visible place.

As for getting this done - It's long, hard, a pain in the rear, and I lost all of the work I had done on the UK folder prior to the upload. We have over 3000 images in the archive now (probably over 3500 with the latest upload session, I haven't had the time to take the backup of the new folders yet), and fixing everything takes time. If people think they can follow the rules and get me folders that are fixed, I'll consider it on a case-by-case basis. No Promises.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 6:32 pm
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I agree with admin.

BTW. when are we going to do a clean up of the Norwegian database, it's a bit .... dirty in there.


And I am willing to redraw or update drawings that I did before that are in need of that.


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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 6:35 pm
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heuhen wrote:
I agree with admin.

BTW. when are we going to do a clean up of the Norwegian database, it's a bit .... dirty in there.


And I am willing to redraw or update drawings that I did before that are in need of that.
PM me, and we can have a talk about getting things renamed. This is more about getting the names right than getting the drawings right. In my practical experience, you amazing artists do a great job with the drawings and I never have to worry about them.

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Charybdis
Post subject: Re: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 6:50 pm
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Ah well, it was just an idea. I suppose my system is a bit long winded.

I do worry though, that including British pennant numbers, which seem to have no order whatsoever, could result in a random list of cruisers, for example.

Whatever the outcome, I'd be happy to lend a hand.

Just to get it straight... I download the country files, put them into a folder, rename the files and email them to you as a complete folder?

Let me know if I can be of assistance.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 7:12 pm
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Well, IMHO the title line proposed by Charybids is indeed too long, but I'd say that He has a point in that in some folders there is some disorganization (like with some names having country name prefix and some not, SS prefix for "steam ship" next to SSK for submarine - and if I recall correctly in several places to SS used for submarines themselves etc.).

That said, I am willing to volunteer for help with renaming file names - both in Polish folder and elsewhere.

Btw. - but that's just a digression, for my own archive I'm using completely different system of two-letter ship-class prefixes (for example, instead of CV and CVN I use AC, BB means battleship but coast defence battleship is BD etc.), although introducing it here rather wouldn't work (I find it logical for myself, but dozens of other users could not ;) ).


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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 7:14 pm
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Charybdis wrote:
Ah well, it was just an idea. I suppose my system is a bit long winded.
Well, you posted an idea, which is more than some have done in the past. We've had people in the past who've complained and then never posted any ideas about how to fix it, or offered to help fix it.
Charybdis wrote:
I do worry though, that including British pennant numbers, which seem to have no order whatsoever, could result in a random list of cruisers, for example.

Whatever the outcome, I'd be happy to lend a hand.
Oh yeah, it could get a bit out of order but I think it will work.
Charybdis wrote:
Just to get it straight... I download the country files, put them into a folder, rename the files and email them to you as a complete folder?

Let me know if I can be of assistance.
PM me and we'll discuss it. I'll soon have (infact, the transfer has finished so I do have) a copy of the server files on my hard drive. I can split countries off if people want to help fix the folders.

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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 7:17 pm
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And for the record, we're sitting at over 4300 files now!

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Charybdis
Post subject: Re: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 7:23 pm
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Monster.

Whats that, about 150MB?

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KimWerner
Post subject: Re: Database LightbulbPosted: January 26th, 2013, 7:33 pm
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TimothyC wrote:
If you don't have a pennant number for a ship (such as UK battleships or Civilian ships), then the Pennant number is replaced with just the type as follows:
BB Howe 1944.png
:shock: HMS Howe had a pennant number. She had pennant number 32 even if it wasn't painted on the hull!

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